In this episode of Quakers Today, we consider the Bible. Co-host Peterson Toscano (he/him) speaks with Jesuit priest and best-selling author Father James Martin about the story of Lazarus and what it means to live a resurrected life in today’s world. From a powerful visit to Lazarus’s tomb in Palestinian territory to reflections on freedom and healing, Father Martin brings spiritual and historical depth to a story often overlooked.

We also hear from Ollie, a British Quaker and creator of the popular YouTube channel Quake It Up. In conversation with Peterson, Ollie explores the role of the Bible in Liberal Quakerism, what happens when scripture is weaponized, and how we can find spiritual grounding beyond the written word.

This episode delves into the complications and possibilities of engaging with sacred texts, especially for those who have felt harmed by them. It also celebrates the boldness of Mary and Martha in the Gospels, and the courage it takes to step outside of cultural norms in pursuit of truth.

Featured Guests

Fr. James Martin, SJ
Editor-at-large of America Magazine and author of Come Forth: The Promise of Jesus’s Greatest Miracle. He also hosts the Spiritual Direction podcast. Learn more at AmericaMagazine.org.

Ollie from Quake It Up
Quaker YouTuber and podcast host whose channel explores the faith and practice of Liberal Quakerism. You can find Quake It Up on YouTube, Instagram, and Bluesky.

Listener Question for Next Month

?️ What’s your favorite Quaker term or phrase?
Something common among Friends, but maybe a little odd to outsiders?

Leave a voice memo with your name and location. Call 317-QUAKERS (317-782-5377). If you’re outside the U.S., dial +1 first. You can also send your answer via email or on social media. Email: [email protected]

Resources

? Come Forth: The Promise of Jesus’s Greatest Miracle – by Fr. James Martin
? Quake It Up on YouTube
? Friends Journal’s new Bible Study column. We welcome your insights, your stories, and your questions.

Transfigurations–Transgressing Gender in the Bible by Peterson Toscano. Available for free viewing on YouTube. 

Episode Highlights

• Spiritual Geography: Fr. Martin reflects on visiting the tomb of Lazarus in Al-Eizariya (Bethany), a pilgrimage site in Palestinian territory, and how this physical journey mirrors spiritual transformation.
• Freedom as Disruption: Lazarus’s story reveals how resurrection is not just about life after death but the courage to leave behind shame and fear.
• Mary at Jesus’s Feet: Peterson and Ollie reclaim this story as one of gender expansiveness, courage, and spiritual authority.
• Quaker Perspectives on the Bible: Ollie and Peterson explore the tension between inward spiritual authority and the cultural dominance of scripture—especially when it’s used to exclude or harm.
• New Life and Letting Go: What must we leave behind to embrace spiritual freedom?

Quakers Today is the companion podcast to Friends Journal and other Friends Publishing Corporation (FPC) content online. It is written, hosted, and produced by Peterson Toscano and Sweet Miche McCall.

 

Transcript: Quakers, the Bible, and Spiritual Authority
Quakers Today – August 12, 2025

Peterson Toscano
In this episode of Quakers Today, we consider the Bible. I’m Peterson Toscano. As a Quaker and a Bible scholar, I often get asked, “How do Quakers view scripture?” This episode won’t answer all your questions, but it will offer a starting point and provide resources to explore further.

First, you’ll hear my conversation with Jesuit priest and author Father James Martin. We talked about the story of Lazarus and how it continues to inspire. Then, you’ll meet Ollie, a fellow Quaker and creator of the YouTube channel Quake It Up, who is helping new and seasoned Friends think more deeply about our relationship to the Bible.

Father James Martin and the Story of Lazarus

Father James Martin is a Jesuit priest and editor-at-large for America Magazine. He’s written more than 15 books, including Come Forth: The Promise of Jesus’s Greatest Miracle. During his pilgrimages, he’s visited the tomb of Lazarus, located in Al-Eizariya (formerly Bethany) in Palestinian territory.

Father James Martin
Bethany, now called Al-Eizariya, literally means “place of Lazarus” in Arabic. The tomb has been venerated since the earliest days of the church. It’s a real, physical place—a stone stairway leads you into a dark, quiet chamber. Visiting there made the story of Lazarus come alive for me. It’s not just a tale from 2,000 years ago; it’s about us—our fears, our tombs, our rebirths. When we began bringing pilgrim groups there, people would often leave in tears. That physical act—descending into darkness, then coming out into light—was deeply moving.

Peterson Toscano
When we talk about Lazarus, we talk about freedom. But freedom is disruptive. It upends expectations. Jesus seemed to understand this. Think about Mary and Martha.

Father James Martin
When Lazarus gets sick, Martha and Mary send word to Jesus, calling him, “the one you love.” But Jesus waits before coming. When he arrives, both sisters greet him by saying, “Lord, if you had been here, our brother would not have died.” They’re blunt and honest. It’s a powerful reminder that prayer doesn’t have to be polite—it can be real.

Father James Martin
Lazarus’s story also shows up in the arts again and again. He’s everywhere—from poetry to novels to plays. Sometimes artists imagine that Lazarus didn’t want to come back from the dead! It’s interesting to see how each generation interprets his story. And that’s the power of sacred stories—they evolve.

Peterson Toscano
Father Martin’s words reminded me of my own unbinding—of releasing shame and fear, the grave clothes that kept me bound for so long. Resurrection begins with letting go.

Father James Martin
All of us come before God unfree in some way. We all have things we need to let die in order to follow God more freely. And the Bible is full of stories about freedom—God leading the Israelites out of Egypt, Jesus freeing people from sin, illness, and despair. Freedom is the constant desire of God throughout what theologians call salvation history. That same freedom is offered to us today.

Ollie from Quake It Up

Before we wrap up, I want to introduce you to Ollie, a UK-based Quaker who runs Quake It Up, a YouTube channel about Liberal Quakerism. Ollie reached out to me while working on a video series about Quakers and the Bible.

Ollie
I didn’t grow up reading the Bible. I’m not a scholar. But I got to a point in my series where I didn’t know what else to say. I wanted to talk about the hard stuff—the difficult passages, the ones that exclude people. I needed help.

Peterson Toscano
Many people who’ve been hurt by institutional religion feel disconnected from the Bible. So where can they turn if they’re seeking healing or affirmation?

Ollie
That’s what I wonder too. I think a lot of people look to the Bible for authority. If something is true, it has to be in the Bible, right? But Quakerism rejects that. It points us inward.

Peterson Toscano
Early Quakers would say: don’t look to the Bible for inspiration. That’s outward. Instead, settle into silence. Listen inward. That voice might come through scripture—or through a friend, a bird, a breeze. But healing comes from within and through community. That’s why Quakers meet for worship, yes—but also for meals and mutual care.

Ollie
That’s a hard lesson. People from other Christian traditions often struggle to let go of the Bible—not because they hate it, but because it’s been central for so long.

Peterson Toscano
And yet, Quakers have always challenged authority—scriptural and otherwise. Barclay’s Apology wasn’t about saying “I’m sorry”—it was a defense of this radical faith. Back then, the Bible was used to challenge Quakers. Today, it’s often used to enforce cultural and political agendas.

That’s why we need to de-center the Bible’s power in our discourse. It’s not the final authority. Bullies may use it that way, but kindness doesn’t require a citation.

Ollie
I agree. We’re not throwing the Bible away—but we’re not beholden to it either. Still, I wonder: are there stories in scripture that could be reclaimed and reinterpreted for today?

Peterson Toscano
Absolutely. Take Mary and Martha again. That “Are you a Mary or a Martha?” sermon? So wrong. Martha gets painted as the busybody, Mary as the spiritual one. But Martha’s doing the work that keeps the community alive. And Mary? She breaks the rules. She claims space that wasn’t meant for her. And Jesus says, “You belong here.”

Ollie
Did Margaret Fell use that story to justify women preaching?

Peterson Toscano
I don’t know—but it would make total sense if she did.

Wrap-Up

Peterson Toscano
You can watch my full conversation with Ollie on Quake It Up on YouTube. Search for it, or follow them on Instagram or Bluesky.

Peterson Toscano
As for Father James Martin, you can find his book Come Forth: The Promise of Jesus’s Greatest Miracle at your local bookstore or online. He also hosts the Spiritual Direction podcast.

Many thanks to our guests. And thank you for joining us for Quakers Today. If you listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please rate or review the show—it helps others find us. And thank you to everyone who’s been sharing Quakers Today with friends or adding us to your meeting newsletter.

As we begin Season Five next month, I invite you to respond to this question:

What’s your favorite Quaker term or phrase—something common among Friends but odd to outsiders?

Leave a voicemail at 317-QUAKERS (317-782-5377), or send an email. All contact details are at QuakersToday.org. You’ll hear Ollie’s answer to that question in the next episode.

Until next time, Friend, hold fast to what brings you light.