In this third episode of our season-long exploration of Quakers and Money, Peterson Toscano and Diana Yañez turn toward one of the largest and most difficult questions of the series: How do Friends live with integrity inside capitalism?

Last month, we explored relational finance and asked whether taking responsibility for our money and institutional assets can lead to deeper integrity and more equitable power-sharing. This month, Peterson names the friction many Friends feel: the sense of being trapped in a massive economic system built on extraction, inequity, colonialism, and environmental harm.

Through conversations with Lisa Graustein, Nathan Kleban, David Watt, and Traci Hjelt Sullivan, this episode examines the spiritual dissonance between Quaker values and capitalist structures. We hear about stolen land, inherited wealth, paternalism in charitable giving, the legacy of slavery in Quaker history, and the denial made possible by class and racial privilege.

Rather than offering easy answers, Peterson and Diana ask what it means to stay on a journey with truth. If capitalism harms people and the planet, how might Friends move beyond individual purity or denial and toward mutual aid, community wealth-building, repair, and solidarity?

In This Episode

• The Dissonance: Peterson reflects on the gap between Quaker faith and a global economy built on extraction and inequity.
• Capitalism and White Supremacy: Lisa Graustein names capitalism and white supremacy as forces that keep the here and now from becoming the realm of God.
• Stolen Land and Reparative Responsibility: Lisa shares the story of New England Yearly Meeting selling property after repudiating the Doctrine of Discovery and raises questions about what should happen to profits from land acquired through colonization.
• From Charity to Right Relationship: Nathan Kleban of Right Sharing of World Resources challenges paternalistic models of giving and asks who the economy is actually for.
• Quaker Wealth and Enslavement: David Watt, professor of Quaker studies at Haverford College, reminds us that some early Quaker wealth in Philadelphia was tied to Barbados, sugar plantations, and the labor of enslaved people.
• The Wealth of Not Having Debt: Traci Hjelt Sullivan expands the definition of ancestral wealth, naming the opportunities that come from beginning adult life without student debt.
• The Inner Capitalist: Diana reminds us that the Quaker belief in “that of God in everyone” also extends to capitalists, and to the parts of ourselves that continue to benefit from extractive systems.

Our Guests

Lisa Graustein
Lisa Graustein is a Quaker educator, activist, and writer whose work often explores money, power, race, and reparative justice. In this episode, she reflects on inherited wealth, stewardship, and the responsibility to repair harm caused through the accumulation of resources.

Nathan Kleban
Nathan Kleban works with Right Sharing of World Resources, a Quaker organization that supports women-led economic projects in the Global South. Nathan brings a relational and community-centered lens to economics, asking how people get their needs met and how communities express their gifts outside extractive systems.

David Watt
David Watt is the Douglas and Dorothy Steere Professor of Quaker Studies at Haverford College. In this episode, he offers historical context about Quaker wealth, including the connections between early Philadelphia Friends, Barbados, sugar plantations, and slavery.

Traci Hjelt Sullivan
Traci Hjelt Sullivan is the executive director of Right Sharing of World Resources. She brings decades of nonprofit leadership and international experience to her work. In this episode, she reflects on truth, denial, race, class, debt, and the spiritual work of recognizing our own responsibility.

Resources and Recommendations

QuakerSpeak: “What If Wall Street Were Honest?”
https://quakerspeak.com/video/what-if-wall-street-were-honest/

North Carolina Quaker Mark Hulbert has tracked investment advisors since the early 1980s. In this QuakerSpeak video, he talks about how his Quaker background and commitment to integrity led him to ask whether Wall Street advisors were telling the truth.

Spent
https://playspent.org/

Diana recommends Spent, a free browser-based survival game that places players inside the poverty trap. You begin with $1,000 and try to survive for 30 days while making impossible choices: pay rent, fix the car, buy medicine, or keep the lights on. It offers one way to better understand how expensive it can be to be poor in the current economic system.

Caliban and the Witch by Silvia Federici
https://pmpress.org/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1575

Diana references Federici’s work while discussing the relationship between capitalism, labor control, gendered violence, and colonialism.

The Dawn of Everything by David Graeber and David Wengrow
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374157357/thedawnofeverything/

Diana also points to this book while reflecting on European colonialism, the construction of human hierarchy, and the ideas that shaped the modern world.

Organizations Mentioned

• Right Sharing of World Resources: https://rswr.org/
  A Quaker organization that supports women’s self-help groups in the Global South through seed grants and relationship-based partnership.
• Earth Quaker Action Team: https://eqat.org/
  A grassroots Quaker organization that uses nonviolent direct action to challenge systems of economic and environmental injustice.
• New England Yearly Meeting: https://neym.org/
  A regional body of the Religious Society of Friends mentioned in Lisa Graustein’s story about land, reparative responsibility, and the Doctrine of Discovery.
• Haverford College / David Harrington Watt: https://www.haverford.edu/users/dhwatt
  David Watt teaches Quaker studies at Haverford College and appears in this episode to discuss Quaker history, wealth, slavery, and capitalism.

Listener Voicemails

Thank you to John Choe for sharing his reflections and concerns about Quakers, financial discernment, and the role of institutions like Friends Fiduciary.

Thank you also to Richard Tindall for his faithful reminder to drink a glass of water first thing in the morning. As summer begins in the Northern Hemisphere, it is a timely invitation to stay hydrated and care for our bodies.

Question for Listeners

How do you navigate the tension between Quaker values and capitalism?

Where do you feel dissonance between your financial life and your spiritual commitments?

Share your thoughts:
· Voicemail: Call 317-QUAKERS, 317-782-5377
· Email: [email protected]
· Social Media: Respond to us on Facebook, Instagram, or TikTok

Sponsors

Friends Fiduciary
https://friendsfiduciary.org/

Friends Fiduciary unites Quaker values with expert investing. They serve Friends meetings, churches, schools, and organizations through ethical portfolios, shareholder advocacy, and a commitment to justice and sustainability.

American Friends Service Committee
https://afsc.org/

The American Friends Service Committee is a Quaker organization working with communities worldwide to challenge injustice, meet urgent community needs, and build conditions for lasting peace.

AFSC and the Vanguard S.O.S. / Never Vanguard campaign
AFSC announcement: https://afsc.org/newsroom/afsc-joins-vanguard-sos-campaign-fossil-fuel-divestment
Never Vanguard pledge: https://eqat.org/never-vanguard/

AFSC has joined with Earth Quaker Action Team in the Vanguard S.O.S. campaign, asking Friends to boycott and divest from Vanguard until it stops funding fossil fuel projects and takes climate justice into account.

Disclaimers

Quakers Today is a project of Friends Publishing Corporation. This season is sponsored by Friends Fiduciary and the American Friends Service Committee.

This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute investment, legal, or tax advice. Listening does not create an advisory relationship. Friends Fiduciary is a sponsor of this podcast. Sponsorship does not constitute an endorsement, and Quakers Today does not receive compensation based on listener investment decisions.

Diana Gisel Yañez is an Investment Advisor Representative of Natural Investments PBLLC. Natural Investments is an independent Registered Investment Advisor. Quakers Today and Friends Journal are not a registered entity and are not an affiliate or subsidiary of Natural Investments. See the Natural Investments Disclosures and Disclaimers and Form CRS: https://naturalinvestments.com/disclosures-disclaimers/

Quakers Today Season 6, Episode 3

Transcript: Quakers and Capitalism

[00:00]

Diana Gisel Yañez: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute investment, legal, or tax advice. Listening does not create an advisory relationship.

David Watt: They made lots and lots of money off of sugar and off the labor of enslaved people, and then left Barbados and came to Philadelphia.

Lisa Graustein: My understanding was that if we repudiate the Doctrine of Discovery and then we sell stolen Indigenous land and keep the profits, that’s inconsistent.

Traci Hjelt Sullivan: In the U.S., given my class and my racial identity, it’s pretty easy to be in denial.

Nathan Kleban: What is right relationship? Or what is being in partnership or solidarity? Or what does struggling together look like in practice, and not just in the words we use?

Peterson Toscano: Hello, I’m Peterson Toscano.

Diana Gisel Yañez: And I’m Diana Yañez.

Peterson Toscano: This is Season Six, Episode Three of the Quakers Today podcast, a project of Friends Publishing Corporation.

Diana Gisel Yañez: Last month, we discussed relational finance. We considered the Quaker theology of the priesthood of all believers and applied it to economics. Can taking personal responsibility for our money and our institutional assets lead to deeper integrity and more equitable power sharing?

Peterson Toscano: Yeah, I have my doubts, in part because of the colossal system of capitalism. It’s an infrastructure that transcends nation-states. There are corporations that are larger than many countries.

Diana Gisel Yañez: In my conversations with various Quakers who are passionate about equity and justice, capitalism came up a lot. Peterson, I want to hear your concerns.

In this episode of Quakers Today, we hear from Friends grappling with a capitalist structure that is at odds with the values we have long promoted within the Religious Society of Friends. And as we discuss finance, I want to remind you that we’re exploring ideas, not prescribing financial decisions.

Peterson Toscano: Season Six of Quakers Today is sponsored by Friends Fiduciary and the American Friends Service Committee. Thank you for your ongoing support.

Diana Gisel Yañez: Friends Fiduciary is a sponsor of this podcast. Sponsorship does not constitute an endorsement, and we do not receive compensation based on listener investment decisions.

The Global Economy Is Built on Extraction and Inequity

Peterson Toscano: As Quakers, we often talk about walking cheerfully over the earth, answering that of God in everyone. But I feel a friction that I can’t ignore. I feel trapped in a massive economic system. I try to live with integrity, but how do I do that when the very ground we stand on, the global economy, is built on extraction and inequity?

It isn’t just about my individual choices. It’s about a system that feels fundamentally at odds with the world we are called to build. My friend Lisa Graustein puts words to this spiritual gap, reminding us that our faith is about the here and now.

Lisa Graustein: As Quakers, we believe here and now should be heaven, and it’s not. Capitalism and white supremacy are two of the main reasons that it’s not. So if we’re to bring about the realm of God now, that means we have to have a fundamentally different orientation to how we interact with and share resources than how capitalism or white supremacy would have us view resources.

Resources are things to be stewarded and shared versus acquired, bought, sold, traded. I don’t think about the money that I’ve inherited as mine. I think of it as a resource to steward and share, and then also used to work to heal some of the wounds that were caused in its amassing, both specifically within my family lineage and then just more broadly within how capitalism functions.

Diana Gisel Yañez: The system is definitely at odds with the well-being of people and the environment. In many ways, I feel that today’s capitalism is an extension of the colonialism that created the society we are in today, and that colonialism started at home for colonizers.

Silvia Federici, author of Caliban and the Witch, says that the massacre of so many women in Europe after the Black Plague prepared white men to continue this massacre in other parts of the world, and that the reason for the massacre was to control labor, a key resource for capitalists.

When Europeans first made contact with the peoples in what is now called America, there were decades of conversations between different thinkers about how to treat these new people. Eventually, they decided that Europeans were humans with rights and everyone else was not. You can see more about this issue in the great book The Dawn of Everything by David Graeber and David Wengrow.

[00:05:00]

Diana Gisel Yañez: So where does this leave us as Quakers? The Religious Society of Friends began in a world where colonialism and human enslavement were already in place. Colonialism expanded over time from stealing land and enslaving humans to the neoliberalism that we recognize today. Countries, companies, and individuals from the Global North continue to plunder the Global South through extractive trade agreements and onerous international debt repayments.

Capitalism demands one priority: more capital for more growth. And just like colonialism before it, this comes at the expense of people and our planet. I believe some Quakers have also bought into this mentality. Too often, we are simply a reflection of our times and not real change agents.

Peterson Toscano: When we spoke with Lisa Graustein, she shared a story about New England Yearly Meeting selling some property. It’s a story about what happens when our verbal commitments to justice meet the cold reality of a million-dollar profit.

Lisa Graustein: In 2013 or 2014, New England Yearly Meeting, along with other Christian denominations, formally repudiated the Doctrine of Discovery. This was a 1490 papal document that basically gave sanction for Catholics to colonize and economically prosper from whatever they discovered in the Western Hemisphere and is the basis for all of colonialism in this hemisphere.

A few years later, the yearly meeting sold a retirement home that it owned just south of Boston. And after all the legal fees and everything was resolved, there was just a little bit over a million dollars left. My understanding was that if we repudiate the Doctrine of Discovery and then we sell stolen Indigenous land and keep the profits, that’s inconsistent.

If we repudiate the Doctrine of Discovery, that means we understand the profits from the sale of that stolen land as not belonging to us, but it actually needs to be returned to the descendants of the people who were living there when the land was stolen.

Peterson Toscano: If the foundation of our wealth is stolen land, then the engine of our current economy is global extraction. Nathan Kleban, through his work with Right Sharing of World Resources, asks a question that cuts through the marketing of global trade: Who is this economy actually serving?

Nathan Kleban: What is right relationship? Or what is being in partnership or solidarity? Or what does struggling together look like in practice, and not just in the words we use?

I’m very interested in economics. I went to school for business in my dark past. I am interested in how people get their needs met and how people express their gifts and their vocations. And that’s what the economy is: the household. Who’s the economy for?

In the past, we called them donor-designated projects. The donors determine what’s happening. It’s very much paternalistic. It’s clear about who has the power. For the projects that we’re involved with, the groups of women we partner with to do economic projects in their community, it’s about their community and how they meet those needs.

Not the whole thing where people would export goods to the West for a lot of money. What kind of economics is that? It was very much oriented toward people and their local communities and building those relationships.

Peterson Toscano: Nathan is pointing to a shift we have to make, moving from charity to right relationship. That means we need to admit that even Quaker organizations have been paternalistic toward others, especially when it comes to money and other resources, focusing on commodities over community.

Traci Hjelt Sullivan is the executive director of Right Sharing of World Resources. She speaks to the denial that my class and my race allow me.

Traci Hjelt Sullivan: In both an ideal and real sense, for me, Quakerism is a journey with truth. And part of that truth is facing the hard realities of the world and trying to figure out how we can face some of our own responsibility that we can’t fix at all. In the U.S., given my class and my racial identity, it’s pretty easy to be in denial.

Peterson Toscano: Traci even challenges our definition of wealth. In a capitalistic world, we think of wealth as what we have in the bank. But Traci reminds us that in the U.S., sometimes wealth includes being free from the violence that comes from debt and poverty.

Traci Hjelt Sullivan: How do you even see what ancestral money is? I’m really clear that both my husband and I, our parents paid for our undergraduate education. Is lack of debt wealth? I think it is nowadays, right? To start our adult life with no debt allowed us so many opportunities. It’s a form of ancestral wealth.

[00:10:00]

Diana Gisel Yañez: And Peterson, it’s not only Quaker organizations that have struggled with capitalism. It’s Quakers themselves. I spoke with David Watt, professor of Quaker studies at Haverford College. David says that much of the wealth we have in the Philadelphia Quaker community can be traced back to cruel, unjust, and inhumane origins.

David Watt: Many of the leaders of Quakerism have come from very wealthy families. Of course, Philadelphia was founded by William Penn. Many of the leaders of Philadelphia in the late 1600s were actually people who came from Barbados.

They had left England, made their way to Barbados, and quickly became deeply involved in the sugar plantation and in the economy of slavery. They made lots and lots of money off of sugar and off the labor of enslaved people, and then left Barbados and came to Philadelphia. So there’s no purity here.

Quakers have had important things to say about economic matters. Quakers were among the very first white Christians to begin to suspect that owning other human beings was immoral. But there’s also a deep history of slave owning.

Peterson Toscano: I guess you can say I’m on a journey with truth. And the truth I’m seeing is that I cannot simply shop my way to a better world or rely on individual integrity to stop the wheels of extraction. If I truly believe that here and now should be heaven, as Lisa Graustein said, then I have to move beyond being a curious tourist in my own faith.

I have to look at the models Nathan Kleban mentioned: mutual aid, community wealth building, and solidarity, not just as alternatives to capitalism, but as the actual practice of the Quaker values I pursue. And that means, in addition to being informed about where I earn and spend my money and where I invest, I also need to understand and recognize how my federal, state, and local taxes are allocated. And that’s scary, I have to say. But this is something we will discuss in a future episode.

Quaker Mark Hulbert Says Capitalism Is a System of Violence

Peterson Toscano: Now, I don’t have all the answers yet, but I know that staying in denial is no longer an option for me. If capitalism is a system of violence against the planet and people, then my responsibility isn’t just to survive within it. How can I confront it? How can we transform it? How might struggling together in true solidarity provide a path to the just and loving world we seek to co-create?

Diana Gisel Yañez: Here is a hard truth. Our conviction as Quakers that there is that of God in everyone also extends to the capitalists themselves, including our own inner capitalists. That of God is also in those of us who continue to benefit from violent, extractive capitalism. For us to be transformed, I believe the violence must first be revealed and stopped. Then we can make amends for past harms.

I know that this can feel like a huge project. In our next episode, we’ll consider how to proceed once we understand the burden of capitalism. Fran Brokaw, a Quaker navigating inherited wealth, will share her own journey of reconciling with said wealth.

Fran Brokaw: The second year, we were asked to raise a particular amount of money and commit to giving money to a group. And the third year, to raise money and to donate it to a neighborhood of people. I came home from it seeing the money that I inherited from my parents, from my uncle. It felt like in The Hobbit, the dragon in The Hobbit. I felt like I had this hoard of jewels and money and wealth that I’m guarding over, and that the goal of having that money is to have it get bigger and bigger and bigger.

Peterson Toscano: If you want to go deeper into how Quakers have wrestled with integrity and finance, check out the QuakerSpeak video “What If Wall Street Were Honest?” North Carolina Quaker Mark Hulbert has been tracking investment advisors since the early ’80s. He talks about what motivated him to try to make Wall Street honest.

Mark Hulbert: Yeah, I grew up a Quaker, born into it. As I got out of graduate school, I took a number of writing and research projects. And one of those was to write an article about some of these investment advisors who were speaking at a conference, all of whom got up and said how great they were and how much money you would have made if you’d only been smart enough to follow them.

And you knew that they could not all be telling the truth because they were contradicting each other. But you couldn’t also, a priori, tell which one of them was lying or if all of them were lying. And this was so offensive to my philosophical sensibilities and my religious sensibilities.

[00:15:00]

Diana Gisel Yañez: You can hear the rest of Mark’s testimony at the QuakerSpeak YouTube page or at QuakerSpeak.com. Just search for “What If Wall Street Were Honest?”

Peterson Toscano: We love sharing a variety of voices on this show, but keep in mind that our guest views are their own and don’t always reflect the official position of Friends Journal or Quakers Today’s sponsors.

Spent Is a Browser-Based Survival Game That Puts You Right in the Poverty Trap

Peterson Toscano: Diana, last month we spoke about the economy as a global household. But for a lot of people, that house feels more like a trap. So how can someone like me, with financial and social privilege, better understand how hard it can be to get ahead?

Diana Gisel Yañez: There is an unconventional resource called Spent. It’s a browser-based survival game that puts you right in the middle of the poverty trap. You start with $1,000 and 30 days to survive. Every day, you face a choice. Do you fix the car so you can get to work, or do you pay for your child’s medicine? It’s not just about the math. It’s about the impossible trade-offs people make every day. It shows how expensive it is to be poor in our current system.

Peterson Toscano: So it’s like real-life Survivor. It shows the human cost of finance within our current system. Yeah, I bet it’s going to be a really good first step toward empathy and true relational finance.

Diana Gisel Yañez: For some, it really could be. The game Spent is free, and you can play it at playspent.org.

Peterson Toscano: This tool provides one perspective and should not be the sole basis for investment decisions.

Diana Gisel Yañez: We have the links to these resources, along with a full transcript, in our show notes at QuakersToday.org.

Peterson Toscano: Diana, thank you so much for walking alongside me as I grapple with financial issues that I’ve put off for far too long. And you listening, thank you for joining us for this episode of Quakers Today.

Diana Gisel Yañez: We have put together for you our show notes with short bios of our guests, links to resources mentioned, and a full transcript. Just visit QuakersToday.org. You can also see a video version of this podcast, along with short clips and bonus material. Just visit the Friends Journal YouTube page. We will have a link to the video in our show notes.

Peterson Toscano: We want to hear your thoughts, opinions, reflections, and questions. Please email us at [email protected]. That’s [email protected]. You can leave us a voice memo as well at 317-QUAKERS. That’s 317-782-5377. Plus one if you’re calling from outside the USA. That number again: 317-QUAKERS.

Diana Gisel Yañez: Season Six of Quakers Today is sponsored by the American Friends Service Committee. AFSC works with communities worldwide to challenge injustice, meet urgent community needs, and build conditions for lasting peace.

The investment firm Vanguard is the world’s number-one investor in fossil fuel expansion. That’s why AFSC has joined with Earth Quaker Action Team in the Vanguard S.O.S. campaign. They are asking Friends to boycott and divest from Vanguard until it stops funding fossil fuel projects and starts taking climate justice into account. Visit AFSC.org/Vanguard-SOS to learn more and sign the Never Vanguard Pledge.

Peterson Toscano: Season Six of Quakers Today podcast is also sponsored by Friends Fiduciary. Friends Fiduciary unites Quaker values with expert investing. They serve more than 460 organizations with ethical portfolios, shareholder advocacy, and a deep commitment to justice and sustainability.

They’re a Quaker nonprofit offering cost-effective professional investment services to Friends meetings, churches, schools, and organizations, with five value-aligned portfolios managed by SEC-registered firms. Every holding is screened for Quaker values. In 2024 alone, they distributed $16 million to their constituents. Learn more at friendsfiduciary.org.

Diana Gisel Yañez: Friend, may you find greater clarity as you pursue love and justice in all you do.

John Choe Raises Concern About What Happens When Friends Outsource Financial Decisions

Peterson Toscano: We asked you to share your thoughts, opinions, questions, and experiences around Quakers and money, and we heard from John Choe.

John raises a concern about what happens when Quaker meetings and organizations outsource financial discernment to institutions, including Friends Fiduciary, one of our sponsors this season. John also offers a direct critique of Friends Fiduciary itself. We want to make space for this kind of response. Sponsorship does not mean editorial control, and part of our work this season is to stay open to hard questions about money, power, accountability, and trust.

Here is John Choe.

John Choe: I’m a member of New York City’s People of Color Worship and Reflection Group, which has been raising awareness and is urging meetings to divest from companies identified by the United Nations as complicit in genocide, including Amazon, Google, and Microsoft.

Dear Friends, I listened to your podcast on Quaker finance with interest. Many meetings have 

outsourced our spiritual discernments and become over-reliant on third-party firms like Friends Fiduciary to handle these important matters of faith. Friends Fiduciary has so far refused to divest from these companies, and as their customers, Quakers have unknowingly invested millions of dollars of our endowments in companies facilitating genocide, war crimes, surveillance, and detention through the development of advanced cloud computing and artificial intelligence platforms.

The growth and use of AI is particularly troubling in a world increasingly dominated by oligarchs, authoritarian governments, and corporations that show little interest in its quote-unquote externalities, namely mass unemployment, economic inequality, and ecological unsustainability.

I leave you with some quick queries inspired by economists at the Applied Economy Evolution Institute: How do our investments deliver a positive impact to humanity and the stewardship of our planet? How do our investments serve as inspirational patterns and examples for Friends and the wider society? How have we discerned alternatives to the unjust economy represented by Wall Street? Will our grandchildren call our investment prophetic? Thank you.

Peterson Toscano: Thank you, John, for sharing your concerns and for pressing us to think more deeply about how financial decisions are made in Quaker communities. I’m grateful you were able to have a conversation with Diana about your concerns, and that you also are directly in contact with Friends Fiduciary.

John raises hard questions about what happens when Friends hand over financial discernment to institutions, even Quaker institutions. And this is not an abstract concern. Recently, UN Special Rapporteur Francesca Albanese released a report called From Economy of Occupation to Economy of Genocide. In it, she names a number of corporations, including Alphabet, the parent company of Google, and Amazon, because of their role in providing cloud and technology infrastructure to the Israeli government through Project Nimbus.

To be clear, this is not the United Nations as a whole issuing a blanket divestment order. It is a formal report from a UN-appointed human rights expert. But it does raise a direct challenge for all of us: Do we know what companies we are invested in? Do we know what our retirement funds, meeting funds, schools, and organizations are supporting?

That doesn’t mean every Friend will come to the same conclusion. But it does mean that outsourcing our financial decisions does not release us from spiritual responsibility. Integrity still asks us to pay attention.

Richard Tindall Encourages People to Drink Water First Thing in the Morning

Peterson Toscano: And now for a very different kind of listener message. Richard Tindall has left us multiple voicemails encouraging people to drink a glass of water first thing in the morning. It does not fit neatly into our Quakers and Money theme, but it is the beginning of summer in the Northern Hemisphere, and staying hydrated is a good reminder. So Richard, we are making room for your ministry of water.

[00:25:00]

Richard Tindall: Hi, I’m the guy who drinks a 16-ounce glass of water as soon as I wake up in the morning. I’ve been doing it since February 22. It’s made numerous positive changes to how my brain and body function. Drinking the water this way motivates me to take the very best care of myself. It energizes me. I’ve started lifting weights and going for long walks in the morning. I’m 69 years old. I feel reinvigorated mentally, physically, and spiritually. I encourage you to try it for a month, not just one day, to see what it can do for you. To your health, happiness, and longevity. Take care, and goodbye.

Peterson Toscano: Thank you, Richard.

We Want to Hear From You About Quakers and Money

Peterson Toscano: And now we want to hear from you. What are your thoughts, opinions, reflections, and questions about Quakers and money? Where do you feel the tension between your values and your financial life? What stories from your meeting, household, or community might help others think more clearly and faithfully about money?

Leave us a voicemail at 317-QUAKERS. That’s 317-782-5377. You could also email us at [email protected] or respond to us on Instagram or TikTok.

Thank you so much for listening, and I look forward to spending time with you again soon.

[00:26:29]