Season 3, episode 1. In this episode of Quakers Today, we ask, “How do you process memories, experiences, and feelings?”

Season three of the Quakers Today Podcast begins with the introduction of new co-host Miche McCall (they, them). Along with co-host Peterson Toscano, they unpack the profound questions of faith, activism, and the essence of community.

After the show notes, you will find a complete transcript of this episode below.

Meet Quakers Today podcast’s newest team member, Miche McCall. 

Miche is a professional Friend who works to inspire others to live in alignment with Spirit and joy. After a decidedly secular (but beloved) experience at Oberlin College, Miche came to Quakerism through a fellowship with Quaker Voluntary Service in 2019. They graduated with a Masters in Theopoetics and Writing from Earlham School of Religion after finding a passion for the queer undercurrents of Quaker worship and silent performance art. Today, Miche works at Quaker Earthcare Witness, as well as Quakers Today podcast. They are inspired by podcasts, ultimate frisbee, and, more recently, block printing. Miche lives in Brooklyn, New York, with their partner and a dog named Bread. 

Being a professional friend means that I get to spend all of my time thinking and, worshipping, and learning more about this faith. -Miche McCall

Community, Interconnectedness, and the Quest for Economic Justice

Nathan Kleban shares profound insights from his spiritual journey, emphasizing the transformative power of community living and its impact on personal growth and collective action. Kleban explores his experiences and observations, ranging from the labor dynamics in the Salinas Valley to the complexities of navigating individualism and community needs. He critically addresses the exploitation embedded in global supply chains, urging a conscious reevaluation of our roles within these systems. Through his journey across different communities and his work with the Alternatives to Violence Project and Right Sharing of World Resources, Nathan exemplifies a deep commitment to confronting injustice and fostering relationships that pave the way for meaningful change. 

Read Nathan’s article Move Toward the Suffering: Confronting Economic Injustice Head-On

A transformative moment for me was living in community. That sense of community was very transformative for me both in learning more about myself and then seeing what we can do together. I just kind of saw myself becoming a lot more alive in those contexts.—Nathan Kleban

Quaker Testimonies as Pathways: Confronting White Supremacy with Equity and Community

Lauren Brownlee, from the Bethesda Friends Meeting in Baltimore Yearly Meeting, delves into the intersection of Quaker principles and racial equity. Drawing on Tema Okun‘s work on white supremacy culture, Brownlee identifies characteristics such as perfectionism, binary thinking, and urgency that permeate our society and contrasts these with Quaker testimonies like peace, community, and stewardship. She emphasizes the importance of embracing a diversity of perspectives, backgrounds, and worldviews to foster a beloved community grounded in equity and justice. Through a reflective examination of Quaker testimonies, Brownlee advocates for actively engaging in the antidotes to white supremacy culture within Quaker communities and beyond, underscoring the role of discomfort in growth and the necessity of inclusive community building. Lauren Brownlee is the deputy general secretary of Friends Committee on National Legislation (FCNL).

Lauren Brownlee appears in the QuakerSpeak video, How Quaker Testimonies Can Combat White Supremacy. The full version of this QuakerSpeak video can be found on the YouTube QuakerSpeak channel. Or visit Quakerspeak.com. 

Our community testimony invites us to think about who all is in our community. How do we have expanding overlapping concentric circles of community? And how are we caring uniquely, for each member of our community? -Laureen Brownlee

Reimagining Quaker Faith: Towards an Ecology of Light and Life

Lauren Brownlee reviews A Quaker Ecology: Meditations on the Future of Friends by Cherice Bock in the March 2024 issue of Friends Journal. The book, inspired by Bock’s presentations at the 2020 New England Yearly Meeting, explores the link between Quaker practices and the ecological crisis, proposing an eco-reformation through watershed discipleship and an eco-theology of light. It challenges Quakers to deepen their relationship with nature and act on environmental stewardship, offering a roadmap for faith-driven ecological engagement.

 

Question for next month:

What recommendation do you have for us and why? 

In each episode, we share reviews of books or films. I imagine you can recommend a book, music, film, or game that has moved you and deepened your understanding of the world. What recommendation do you have for us that we can share with others who listen to our show? What recommendation do you have for us and why?

Leave a voice memo with your name and the town where you live. The number to call is 317-QUAKERS, that’s 317-782-5377. +1 if calling from outside the U.S.

 

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Transcript for Quakers and Community

Season Three, Episode One

SPEAKERS

Lauren Brownlee, Nathan Kleban, Peterson Toscano, Miche McCall

Peterson Toscano  00:05

In this episode of Quakers Today, we ask, How do you process memories, experiences, and feelings? 

In today’s episode, you will learn about a new book that raises questions about the future of Quakerism. Lauren Brownlee considers how Quaker testimonies can combat white supremacy. Nathan Kleban tells us about the personal journey that led him to intentional communities around the United States as a young man. He now applies the lessons he learned as he works to confront economic injustice. And you will meet my new co-host. 

Peterson Toscano  00:41

I’m Peterson Toscano. This is season three, episode one of the Quakers Today podcast, a project of Friends Publishing Corporation. This season of Quakers Today is sponsored by the American Friends Service Committee. 

Peterson Toscano  00:56

This season, you will hear an additional regular voice on the Quakers Today podcast. Miche McCall, Miche, a professional friend, advocates living in harmony with spirit and joy. Their journey into Quakerism began after Oberlin College. Miche is actively involved with Quaker Earthcare Witness and Brooklyn Friends Meeting. Hello, Miche. Welcome to Quakers Today.

Miche McCall  01:21

Hi, Peterson, it’s great to be here.

Peterson Toscano  01:24

I’m just so thrilled to have a colleague to work with on this podcast. Podcasting can be a lonely sport, and you’re someone who loves audio; it sounds like the sort of playfulness that you have with projects that you’ve done in the past.

Miche McCall  01:36

I’ve worked on friends’ and classmates’, podcasts, but most of my stuff, I really have done a lot of soundscapes just for classwork. This is the first time someone has paid me to do it.

Peterson Toscano  01:48

Not only are you a Quaker or a Friend, but you’re a professional Friend. It’s like Friend for pay? Like how does this work?

Miche McCall  01:57

Yeah, I learned about the term “released friend” a few months ago, I tried desperately to figure out what it means to be released. What are you released from? The answer for released friends who are ministers are people who are released from capitalism. They are paid by their congregation or their meeting in order to focus solely on faith work. While I’m not paid to be a minister, being a professional friend means that I get to spend all of my time thinking and worshiping and learning more about this faith.

Peterson Toscano  02:30

Quaker Earthcare witness is an important part of that work for you.

Miche McCall  02:33

I’m the Communications and Outreach Coordinator at QEW. Only two of us are on staff. We have a General Secretary, but we do have a 50-person board. That’s a really big community. And I get to put on events and worship sharing, get to think about climate change from a truly holistic place.

Peterson Toscano  02:52

You came to Quakerism after college.

Miche McCall  02:55

Yeah, I’m a Quaker because Quakerism reached me at a really particular place in my life.

Peterson Toscano  03:01

I’m sure there’s at least one person listening who can relate to that. And listener, you will hear more from Miche later on the show when we’re going to check in after you hear all of the audio we’ve prepared for you today. Thank you, Miche; I look forward to chatting with you in a little while.

Miche McCall  03:16

Yeah, see you soon, and I’m excited to talk to you and our listeners.

Peterson Toscano  03:21

I recently spoke with Nathan Kleban. I asked Nathan about his spiritual journey and about economic justice. He also agreed to read excerpts from his article Move Toward the Suffering: Confronting Injustice Head-On.

Nathan Kleban  03:36

A transformative moment for me was living in community. That sense of community was very transformative for me both in learning more about myself. And then seeing what we can do together. I just kind of saw myself becoming a lot more alive in those contexts. And I saw that and others as well. That aliveness is a very powerful thing. It helps us to do things. And so that’s was a big shift for me. I go between worlds in a lot of ways. If I’m in a Quaker space, people might think of me as like, Oh, he’s kind of that Buddhist-oriented guy. Or, if I’m in a Buddhist setting, it’s like, oh, he’s that Quaker guy. I don’t really carry a conscious definition so much, but it’s interesting to think about how others define me as different depending on the setting. 

Nathan Kleban  04:24

Recently, I returned to visit the Salinas Valley, the salad bowl of the world, and California Central Coast, where I had lived prior to the pandemic. As I drove past its fields, the precise symmetry of crop rows grabbed my eyes like an optical illusion; the straight rows converged on the hills that rose in the distance. Periodically, people in trucks filled the empty geometric spaces, shattering the illusion. Farm workers hunched over while gathering strawberries. Then, with their boxes full, they ran at full speed under the heat of the midday sun to deliver the goods that would eventually make their way to supermarkets around the world. Thus, they fulfilled their roles in the global supply chain. Years ago, I began to wonder how I could be in right relationship with these workers. And I wondered the same thing about the people I was on my way to meet.

Nathan Kleban  05:18

We’re all complicated, and we all have stuff. And when we’re close with other people, our edges grind up against each other. I’m kind of grinding my knuckles together a little bit here. There can be stuff to work through, especially when it’s easier and easier to just escape through digital devices, or just going off and kind of having our own kind of space. Being with others in much more intimate ways it takes work emotionally, and with communication and so forth, especially for those who grew up and they had their own bedroom growing up and then they, of course, you can still do that and community, but having their own kind of sense of space and how much space they need, that can rub up against our sense of what’s normal and comfortable. And so there is discomfort to work with. 

Nathan Kleban  06:04

Individualism has definitely been pushed up or held very highly. In some ways, that can be a healthy thing; we need to take care of ourselves and make sure we’re safe. And in other ways, we become blind to others when we hold that too rigidly. There’s a quote that comes to mind, I forget who said it, they said, “Don’t be an individual.” I think of that, whether it shows up in like Buddhist teachings with interbeing. Understanding that we’re not this separate, discrete individual that just shows up unaffected by others. 

Nathan Kleban  06:41

Tens of millions of people are living enslaved lives shrouded behind global supply chains. Slavery helps produce our clothing, our food, our technological devices. And then there are the myriad forms of exploitation that are a regular occurrence. There’s walking by the unhoused person on the sidewalk and driving by the people picking strawberries. If I were in a history class in the future, how might I fantasize that I acted now? Understanding how these relationships came to be is central to learning how to end them and to establish new kinds of relationships. I don’t write this in judgment of others or myself, but to ask: what are the kinds of communities we need in order to best live out our aspirations? How can we accommodate individuals and communities to live in ways that aren’t accommodating to the status quo? 

Nathan Kleban  07:31

These “economic concerns” can often be not seen as spiritual or religious in significance. An example would be children in Congo mining cobalt for smartphones that we use. That might not come up in traditional religious spaces. But it’s something that I appreciate that it does in my Quaker meeting that I’m a part of. Likewise, ethnic cleansing and genocide in Gaza. That’s an active conversation that we have with Iowa City friends; I appreciate that sense of engaging with these things as a community, connecting those to our lives not as some disconnected matter that’s not really relevant but seeing how it is connected and seeing how we can engage with it. 

Nathan Kleban  08:11

The Earth is a part of the world, too; Earth is a kind of economy as a way of looking at who’s doing the work and who’s getting their needs met. The Earth is doing a lot of work. It’s doing most of the work. Its needs aren’t really being met. We don’t have tree or river labor unions yet or anything like that. And so they’re not really able to advocate for themselves. So they just get mined and destroyed. 

Nathan Kleban  08:35

When it comes to suffering, I think of the Catholic Worker, which I’ve been involved with for a number of years, and they have this approach they call personalism. It’s about building relationships with people, meeting people where they’re at and getting to know them, yeah, being in relationship. Out of that, that’s where the action, effort, and work kind of flows from. You form their relationship, and then things arise out of that relationship, out of that knowing someone else. You’re being a part of that relationship as well. What role you play on a personal dimension. That kind of personalism is very important. As Buddhists might say, we live in an ocean of suffering. How do we sit with that and move with it?

Peterson Toscano  09:30

That was Nathan Kleban, speaking about and reading from his article, “Move Toward the Suffering: Confronting Injustice Head-On.” It is available online at Friendsjournal.org. Nathan facilitates Alternatives to Violence Project workshops, and works for the Right Sharing of World Resources. He also enjoys playing games. One of his favorites is a complex cooperative board game called Spirit Island.

Lauren Brownlee  10:04

Quakers are uniquely called from our principles and practices to lean into racial equity principles to engage in the antidotes to white supremacy and culture. I am Lauren Brownlee, she/her pronouns from Washington, DC. I am a member at Bethesda Friends Meeting in Baltimore yearly meeting. 

Lauren Brownlee  10:30

I have been very interested in Tema Okun’s work on white supremacy culture and some of the characteristics of white supremacy culture that include aspects like perfectionism, either-or kind of binary thinking, one right answer, individualism, urgency. Many of the Quaker testimonies give guidance for how we might engage in racial equity work. When I think about the peace testimony, I think about our being open to a range of ways that people engage, a range of beliefs that people might have, a range of worldviews and backgrounds and how we are in community, which is another of the testimonies, together. Our peace testimony invites us into an openness. 

Lauren Brownlee  11:24

Our community testimony invites us to think about who all is in our community. How do we have expanding overlapping concentric circles of community? And how are we caring uniquely, for each member of our community? How are we answering to that of God in them, even if it looks different from that of God within us? It will be because we are all unique. And it takes community, it takes listening to everyone in that community, to be our best selves to build that beloved community that I believe we are striving for, that truly is with equity and justice for all. 

Lauren Brownlee  12:07

We have to hold up those different worldviews as different perspectives as being just as important, as being just as essential in beloved-community building as our own. Even when that feels uncomfortable for us, that that sense of discomfort is often are growing and leaning into that growth, leaning into something that is unfamiliar, that helps us to be stronger as a community. 

Lauren Brownlee  12:30

And then finally, stewardship is also an invitation for us to be thoughtful about how we are building relationships across our communities. It is important for us to hold on to the fact that white supremacy culture is ever present in Quaker communities, and our antidotes are right there, present alongside these aspects of white supremacy culture that we encounter.

Peterson Toscano  13:01

There was an excerpt from the QuakerSpeak video entitled “How Quaker Testimonies Can Combat White Supremacy.” It features Lauren Brownlee, the Associate General Secretary for Community and Culture at the Friends Committee on National Legislation or FCNL. You will find this QuakerSpeak video and others on the QuakerSpeak channel on YouTube or visit Quakerspeak.com. 

Peterson Toscano  13:28

I keep saying, “Until I work through the stack I already have beside my bed, I can’t possibly buy any more books!” But then I read the book review section in Friends Journal and suddenly, I need another one.

Peterson Toscano  13:41

 For the March 2024 issue of Friends Journal, Lauren Brownlee, who you just heard, reviewed A Quaker Ecology: Meditations on the Future of Friends. Cherice Bock wrote the book. Let me tell you a little bit about it. 

Peterson Toscano  13:54

A Quaker Ecology expands on content Bock shared during the Bible Half Hour series at the 2020 New England Yearly Meeting’s Annual Sessions. Cherice Bock opens our eyes to the deep connections between our spiritual practices and the ecological crisis of our times. She questions whether our traditional Quaker ways are still relevant or are too caught up in outdated ideologies. The idea of eco-reformation Bock presents is not just an expansion of our vision but an invitation to a new way of engaging with our world, connecting deeply with the light that binds all life. 

Peterson Toscano  14:36

In the book, Bock writes about watershed discipleship. This includes acknowledging the ecological crisis we’re in, finding our place in our local environment, and extending our care to the creatures and features of our landscapes. Bock also considers a Quaker eco-theology of light. 

Peterson Toscano  14:57

The book may serve as a roadmap for anyone interested in exploring how faith intersects with environmental stewardship. It’s about envisioning a future where we, as Quakers and fellow inhabitants of this planet, move beyond past limitations towards a holistic community of all life. So yes, I need this book, and maybe you do, too. The book is a Quaker Ecology: Meditations on the Future of Friends. It’s written by Cherice Bock. Lauren Brownlee’s review is in the March 2024 issue of Friends Journal, or you can find it online at FriendsJournal.org. 

Peterson Toscano  15:37

Well, we’ve come to the end of our episode and Miche, are you still here with us?

Miche McCall  15:41

I am, Peterson!

Peterson Toscano  15:42

How are you feeling? And what’s your takeaway from today’s episode?

Miche McCall  15:47

I feel great. I learned so much from Nathan and Lauren. I really liked that they invite us to lean into suffering.

Miche McCall  15:56

I have a personal connection; my mother is from Salinas, where Nathan was doing his work with migrant workers; I did feel this disconnect between my mother’s family, who were white and somewhat conservative and middle class, and the migrant workers that surrounded them. And it hit me how separate we all feel from the people who are so vital to the things we eat and the ways that we live. And Lauren talked about how the light of God might look different in different people. And that’s that’s something I hadn’t thought about, where God is different to everyone. People who may seem so outside of my beloved community have that same light of God.

Peterson Toscano  16:49

Yeah, and for someone listening who doesn’t really believe in God, you can use your own language because that’s, that’s the cool thing about Quakers and Quakerism, is we don’t share a single belief in God. For some people. You’re a non-theist, so that light within you may not be God at all, but you describe it in some other way. And I love that about Quakerism; everyone’s welcome.

Miche McCall  17:10

I love that, too.

Peterson Toscano  17:12

I guess, except if you’re, like, violent and a bigot, I guess you’re not really welcome.

Miche McCall  17:16

Well, Miche, thanks for being here. And you want to wrap it up with me today. 

Miche McCall  17:40

Sounds good. 

Peterson Toscano  17:41

All right. And thank you, listener, for joining us for this episode of Quakers Today.

Miche McCall  17:46

If you like what you heard today and listen to Apple podcasts, please rate and review our show. Many thanks to everyone who has shared Quakers Today with their friends and on social media. Quakers Today is written and produced by Peterson Toscano

Peterson Toscano  18:00

…and now also by you too, Miche. Music on today’s show comes from Epidemic Sound.

Miche McCall  18:08

Season three of Quakers Today is sponsored by American Friends Service Committee. 

Peterson Toscano  18:13

Do you want to challenge unjust systems and promote lasting peace? The American Friends Service Committee, or AFSC, works with communities worldwide to drive social change. Their website features meaningful steps you can take to make a difference. Through their Friends liaison program, you can connect your meeting or church with AFSC and their justice campaigns. Find out how you can become part of AFSC’s global community of changemakers visit afsc.org. That’s afsc.org.

Miche McCall  18:49

Visit QuakersToday. org to see our show notes and a full transcript of this episode.

Peterson Toscano  18:54

Thank you, friend. 

Miche McCall  19:05

We look forward to spending more time with you soon.

Miche McCall  20:20

Let me share next month’s question with you. “What recommendation do you have for us?” In each episode, we share reviews of books or films. I imagine you can recommend a book, music, film, or game that has moved you and deepened your understanding of the world. What recommendation do you have for us that we can share with others who listen to our show? What recommendation do you have for us and why? Leave a voice memo with your name and the town where you live. The number to call is 317-Quakers. That’s 317-782-5377. 317-Quakers,  +1 if you’re calling from outside the USA. You can also send us an email. I have these contact details in our show notes over at Quakerstoday.org.