Season 4, Episode 1. Co-hosts Peterson Toscano (he/him) and Miche McCall (they/them) explore concepts of spiritual optimism and pessimism while navigating turbulent times. The episode features Adrian Glamorgan, who suggests Quakers can stay grounded and act faithfully during difficult times by embracing devotion. Additionally, we highlight the life of Minerva Hoyt, a pioneering conservationist who played a pivotal role in establishing Joshua Tree National Park.

 

Optimism and Pessimism: A Quaker elder shares lessons for staying steady in turmoil.

Miche chats with Adrian Glamorgan, a longtime activist who, before becoming a Quaker, powered his work through anger.  He provides insights for young activists who face growing challenges. How do we stay strong and steady in the face of human cruelty and violence? 

Glamorgan also talks about the Quaker concept of “New Creation,” a vision of the world marked by human potential for good, cooperation, peace, and interconnectedness with the environment. While achieving New Creation might take time, it can serve as a compass, guiding Quakers toward a better future. He shares how, even in the nuts and bolts of serving on a committee or task force, we can find meaningful connections. 

Adrian Glamorgan wrote the article “The Devoted Path: Holding Fast to the Promise of New Creation.” It appears in the December 2024 issue of Friends Journal and at FriendsJournal.org. 

Adrian Glamorgan is a member of Western Australian Regional Meeting and Fremantle Recognised Meeting. He serves as the executive secretary of the Asia-West Pacific Section of Friends World Committee for Consultation, supporting the Section’s diverse yearly meetings, groups, fellowships, and communities of interest, such as Quaker learning, peace, climate, and language inclusion. 

 

The Quaker Simplicity of Talking to God

Pradip Lamichhane from Bhaktapur Evangelical Friends Church in Nepal emphasizes that Quakers don’t need elaborate rituals or intermediaries to connect with the divine. Talking to God can be as simple as expressing gratitude, a practice of thanking God upon waking up and before sleeping. George Fox’s teaches that God resides within, Pradip encourages us to look inward for peace and blessings. 

You will find the full video featuring Pradip Lamichhane and other QuakerSpeak videos at the QuakerSpeak YouTube channel, or visit Quakerspeak.com. 

 

Book Review

Cactus Queen: Minerva Hoyt Establishes Joshua Tree National Park, written by Lori Alexander and illustrated by Jenn Ely.

Cactus Queen tells the story of Minerva Hoyt, a pioneering conservationist who played a crucial role in protecting the Mojave Desert’s unique ecosystem; her efforts in 1936 led to the preservation of over 825,000 acres of desert. The book provides supplemental information about Minerva Hoyt’s life, the various plants and animals of Joshua Tree National Park, and guidance for young environmental activists. Desert Cactus is recommended for readers aged 7 to 10 and is available as a hardcover or an eBook. Read Tom and Sandy Farley’s Friends Journal review.

Read more Friends Journal book reviews.

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Quotes

• “If someone’s got a passion for ballet, F1, or being a horticulturist, a teacher, or an accountant, follow your passion. Better still, follow your leading as it arises because that will be part of the solution.” – Adrian Glamorgan 
• “I’m not advocating Quaker for health purposes, but actually, it’s quite healthy to do.” – Adrian Glamorgan 
• “Silence is a power of many things. The silence will stop the war, silence will restart the joy, and the silence will restart the love.” – Pradip Lamichhane

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Answers for this month: In the last episode, we asked the question: What novel, film or television series changed your relationship with the world?

Thank you to @QueerQuaker, @Emegrey, @ElaineEmmi, Adrian Glamorgan, Linda, and Sally Campbell for answering!

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Question for next month: What are some unexpected ways you find yourself drawn to repair?

How and when have you found joy and meaning in mending things?  In a world that often prioritizes the new, do you mend clothes, address debt, work toward restorative justice, or repair damaged relationships? What are some unexpected ways you find yourself drawn to repair?

Leave a voice memo with your name and the town where you live. The number to call is 317-QUAKERS, that’s +1 317-782-5377.

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Transcript for S4E1: Quakers and Staying Steady Amid Turmoil

Miche McCall: In this episode of Quakers Today, we consider optimism and pessimism amid turmoil.

Peterson Toscano: We reflect on the power of silence.

Miche McCal: And you will learn a little about Joshua Tree National Park and the woman who helped protect over 825,000 acres of the desert.

Peterson Toscano: I am Peterson Toscano.

Miche McCal: And I am Miche McCall.

Peterson Toscano: This is season four, episode one of the Quakers Today podcast, a project of Friends Publishing Corporation. This season of Quakers Today is sponsored by the American Friends Service Committee and Friends Fiduciary. 

Peterson Toscano: Hey, Miche. Welcome back. Welcome back, listeners. We haven’t done this since September, and I am aware that a lot has happened since September 2024. Let’s recap.

Miche McCall: Oh, gosh, yes. It was 75 degrees on Halloween, and this year’s UN climate talks imploded. And there was the US election.

Peterson Toscano: Oh, right.

Miche McCall: Yeah. Half the country is thrilled, and the other half is terrified.

Peterson Toscano: Transgender rights are being debated at the Supreme Court, and the US Is still going ahead with a ban on TikTok, which creates an existential crisis for me.

Miche McCall: About the election, my first presidential election was in 2016. I was 19 years old. And all three times, Donald Trump has been the Republican candidate. Many, but not all, Quakers today are alarmed, concerned, and unclear about where to go from here.

Peterson Toscano: What about you, Miche? How are you feeling about all of this?

Miche McCall: I oscillate between despair that we’ve passed the tipping point of destroying ourselves and taking all of creation down with us and the potentially vain hope that it’s always darkest before the dawn, and we’re going to pull through. How are you feeling, Peterson?

Peterson Toscano: I feel overwhelmed. You know, I have a big imagination, so I’m imagining how bad things can happen in the USA and the rest of the world regarding democracy, human rights, and climate. I’m also overwhelmed by friends who are in full-blown panic mode, especially on social media. And I totally understand their feelings, but it doesn’t help me to doom scroll and take in so much hopelessness.

Miche McCall: Yeah, and people are looking for answers and direction. I’m leaning into my Quaker community. Quakers, especially our elders, have deep wisdom, experience, and perspective that might offer me an understanding of how to move forward.

Peterson Toscano: And you recently spoke with one of our Quaker elders?

Miche McCall: I did! Adrian Glamorgan. He’s the Executive Secretary of Friends World Committee for Consultation for the Asia West Pacific section. His article, “The Devoted Path: Holding Fast to the Promise of New Creation,” explores the topic of optimism and pessimism. It appears in the December 2024 issue of Friends Journal.

Adrian Glamorgan: By temperament, I am naturally optimistic about what humanity can ultimately achieve, and yet ever watchful, I tilt toward the heavily pessimistic when I consider where we are heading. This native combination has given me the energy to work for change, usually without being overwhelmed by what looms ahead. This feels a lighter burden than if I dared to fully grasp the destruction that manifests around us now: for example, in our climate. I can’t dally too long to imagine what the next years of heat and fire and flood will be like; nor consider too many details of a “limited” nuclear war leading to a global catastrophe; nor contemplate the meaninglessness that artificial intelligence may scramble out of our human capacity to create. These threats are real and generally destructive, but they cannot occupy and decimate my inner compassion or willingness to engage. I keep these threats outside the inner calm, or they will burn away my capacity to love and to act. Not everyone is naturally disposed this way. They may feel the pain more fully when they watch the news or see where things are heading. We need people with such a range of compassion and empathy. But sometimes grasping the fuller realities of the planet’s existential threats can lead to despondency or to a protective withdrawal from harsh realities. We can consider other spiritually empowering alternatives, finding ways intrinsic to being a Quaker.

Miche McCall: Adrian has been a kindergarten, teacher, a college professor, a union organizer, and had his own radio program. But most of his experience in the world is in environmental and peace movements and activism. But his approach to this work changed after he became a Quaker.

Adrian Glamorgan: Before I was a Quaker, I was quite active in a lot of social change. After I hadn’t seen a friend of mine in the social change movement, in the peace movement, they got really cross with me. Adrian, you’ve changed. You used to be so angry. I knew exactly what she meant. Because anger around injustice is a fuel that can burn for a long time. But it goes off in all directions, anger. And it doesn’t connect with people. In fact, it disconnects people. 

Miche McCall: Early Quakers envisioned a new creation marked by human perfectibility, love and integrity, free from sin, but faced resistance as most people clung to the old creation.

Adrian Glamorgan: What it is inside of us I think is a picture of the world as we wish it to be. Quakers have insights about how to bring ourselves closer to that. So, we may not arrive at it, but it’s a compass point. We have a duty now to learn the skills of stepping back into interdependence with consciousness, to co-create in ways that are meaningful and worthy of who we are. It involves us learning to respect life and rejoice and find awe and wonder in it, as well as being productive and feeding people and giving the capacity to have meaningful lives. That’s my picture of the new creation. I’d be interested in other people’s. 

Peterson Toscano: Adrian points out that extremes do not help us honestly face challenges. 

Adrian Glamorgan: Excessive optimism is not being honest and excessive pessimism isn’t being honest. There’s no integrity to that. When you see here the word integrity, integrate. Integrate what you know is happening in the world and what can be done about it. Integrate your spiritual experience and work from that place and then you can trust and have faith. It doesn’t rely on your ego to move the world and all you have to do is your part in it.

Miche McCall: For Adrian, our job is to embrace our leadings. Leaning into faithfulness is the solution.

Adrian Glamorgan: If someone’s got a passion for ballet or F1 or for being a horticulturalist or a teacher or an accountant, follow your passion. Better still follow your leading as it arises because that will be part of the solution. That may not look like being at the front line, being at the barricades. 

Peterson Toscano: In his article, Adrian writes about devotion. In my earlier days at evangelical churches, devotion for me was about daily prayer times and Bible reading. Adrian helps expand my understanding.

Adrian Glamorgan: Devotion though I don’t think people step into devotion. It sounds far too pious to me, you know, like, uh, excuse me, I’m just about to be devoted. It doesn’t work that way for most of us. I think what happens is that you start doing something because it’s right to do it and then you can’t stop doing it and it feels right to do it everything works so that you can do it and you keep doing it. And then people say they notice, they say “you’re doing that”, you know that you can’t quite stop. You know that people draw strength from it. You keep doing, and you have long days and nights, and you say, why am I doing this? It’s taking far too long, but you can’t not do it. Guess what? You’ve arrived at devotion.

Peterson Toscano: As Quakers, we have a truly countercultural practice. Sitting in silence together.

Adrian Glamorgan: I’ve got a feeling that the idea of sitting quietly resets us neurologically. I’m not advocating Quaker for health purposes, but actually it’s quite healthy to do it because your state of being in fight, flight, freeze, or fawn slowly releases when you give yourself enough time. You can de-traumatize through sitting quietly. 

Miche McCall: Another feature of Quaker meetings is the role of committees. Even if you’re not a Quaker, you might be on a committee or task force. Adrian gave me a fresh perspective about the purpose of being in one of these subgroups.

Adrian Glamorgan: In your committees. Oh, my goodness, committees, because they can be minor circles of, uncomfortability. I won’t say hell. We need to think of our committees in two ways. One, as a place where people commit. Committees has intrinsically in the word commit, so whatever committee you’re on, commit to it. And the other one is strive for fellowship and spiritual experience above doing things, because you can make great busyness but not much spirit, and it drives people away.

Miche McCall: Adrian provides a vision of how we can navigate through our current time of multiple crises.

Adrian Glamorgan: We can hold fast to the new creation without being mesmerized by the ocean of darkness. We can discern to avoid having either optimism or pessimism pull us away from our true calling. We can be strengthened by gratitude, especially when we consider others in our Quaker community and the way the Spirit has held us in the past. And we can come to understand the power of devotion when it settles in us and gives us the strength to persevere.

Peterson Toscano: That was Adrian Glamorgan, the Executive Secretary of Friends World Committee for Consultation for the Asia West Pacific section.

Miche McCall: His article “The Devoted Path: Holding Fast to the Promise of New Creation” appears in the December 2024 issue of Friends Journal. You can also read it FriendsJournal.org.

Pradip Lamichhane: I am Mr. Pradip Lamichhane from Nepal, so I go to Bhaktapur Evangelical Friends Church in Nepal. Silence is a power of many things — Like, the silence will stop the war, silence will restart the joy, and the silence will restart the love. That’s why I like silence and I am continually trying to get connected with the Friends around the world; so I can participate and engage and contribute whatever I can. I have experienced poverty, I have experienced difficulties, I have experienced conflict. During this period of years, the God help me to go through all of these difficulties, poverty, sorrows, pains, travels, starvations. That’s all given by God. That’s what we say in evangelical way. You know, if you follow the all door will be opened, all the wisdom will be poured to you and all the circumstances will be clear. That’s what I believe. So every morning I wake up, I say “Thank you, God”. That’s all. Before going to bed, “Oh God, thank you very much. How lovely you are.” Many people things they have to do lots of things to talk to God, you know? You don’t have to do anything. You just live with the God. But saying that, you need community. You know? So community help you to guide you to connect to God. Sometime people say, “So why should I go to the church? Why should I go to the meeting? It’s all old people out there.” The young people says, “They are not speaking what we need. They are speaking old traditions. Old culture.” The Friends church and Friends community started from this problem actually. During that time, everybody is complaining. What they are complaining? They complaining pastor is not good, they are complaining church is not good, they are complaining the meeting is not good, they are complaining seating chair is not good. George Fox said that you can directly talk with the God and your problem will be solved. You don’t need to go and complain, but that of God is inside of you. Then why do you complain to others because that is inside of you? If you complain, complain for yourself. Because the problem is not outside. The problem is the inside. You don’t need to go outside, you ask inside and you will get peace, you’ll be blessed, and then friends will join you. They will feel that of God in you and they will also bless. The blessing is like that: You get blessing, and you pass the blessing. That’s how it should work. Give and pass. In other culture of religions, there is a lot of thing you have to do. You have to wake up early morning, go to bath in the cold waters, and there are lots of materials you have to prepare in order to worship. And for us, just say. “Thank you God, how are you doing?” How is he? It’s okay. I go with a simplex. God is love. God is full of mercy. God will be there always for you, but you need to talk with him.

Miche McCall: That was an excerpt from the QuakerSpeak video “The Quaker Simplicity of Talking to God.” You can find this video and the Quakerspeak channel on YouTube or visit Quakerspeak.com.

Peterson Toscano: It’s time for our Friends Journal Book Review. We’re excited to share a fascinating biography for young readers. Tom and Sandy Farley reviewed the book Cactus Queen: Minerva Hoyt Establishes Joshua Tree National Park. It was written by Laurie Alexander and illustrated by Jen Ely. Tom and Sandy highlight why this biography was overdue. As environmentally conscious Californians who frequent Joshua Tree National Park, they had never heard of Minerva Hoyt. In 1936, her work helped protect over 825,000 acres of the desert. This book captures her journey from nature enthusiast to pioneering conservationist who used her artistic and political savvy to preserve the Mojave Desert’s unique ecosystem. The Farleys praise Jen Ely’s vibrant illustrations, which bring the beauty and challenges of the desert to life. They also commend the supplemental materials at the end of the book. These include notes on Minerva’s life, the park’s flora and fauna, and even tips for budding environmental activists. Cactus Queen is a meaningful read for ages 7 to 10, and it’s available as a hardcover or ebook. To read the full review by Tom and Sandy Farley, visit Friends Journal online friendsjournal.org 

Peterson Toscano: Thank you for joining us for this episode of Quakers Today. Quakers Today is written and produced by me, Peterson Toscano.

Miche McCall: And me, Miche McCall. Music on today’s show comes from Epidemic Sound.

Peterson Toscano: Season four of Quakers Today is sponsored by Friends Fiduciary. Since 1898, Friends Fiduciary has provided values-aligned investment services for fellow Quaker organizations. Friends Fiduciary consistently achieves strong financial returns while witnessing to Quaker testimonies. They also help individuals support organizations they hold dear through giving strategies, including donor-advised funds, charitable gift annuities, and stock gifts. Learn more about FFC’s services at friendsfiduciary.org 

Miche McCall: This season of Quakers Today is also brought to you by American Friends Service Committee. Vulnerable communities and the planet are counting on Quakers to take action for a more just, sustainable, and peaceful world. The American Friends Service Committee, or AFSC, works at the forefront of many social change movements to meet urgent humanitarian needs. Find out more about how you can get involved in their programs to protect migrant communities, establish an enduring peace in Palestine, demilitarize police forces around the world, assert the right to food for all, and more. Visit afsc.org 

 

Peterson Toscano: Visit QuakersToday.org to see our show notes and a full transcript of this episode. And if you stick around after the closing, you will hear listeners responses to the question, what novel, film, or television series changed your relationship with the world?

Miche McCall: This concludes our episode of Quakers Today Reflecting on Staying Steady in Turbulent Times.

Peterson Toscano: Thank you for joining us and may you find moments of stillness and clarity.

Miche McCall: In a moment, you will hear listeners’ voicemail responses to the question, what novel, film, or television series changed your relationship with the world?

Peterson Toscano: But first, we have a practical question for you about this podcast. On our Instagram account, Claudia wrote the following: “a little feedback on the audio of the podcast. The background music is too loud and almost like a duet with the speaker. It is distracting. I have to really focus on the speakers. It is annoying. So I will take several breaks to get through it. I really do appreciate the efforts that it takes to bring a podcast of this magnitude to us.”

Miche McCall: Thank you, Claudia for this feedback. Who else is having this experience? We want to make sure that the show is clear and easy for everyone to hear.

Peterson Toscano: Please let us know by commenting on our social media. We have uh TikTok for as long as it lasts. I don’t know, Instagram and X. And I guess we’re considering going to Blue Sky. I mean, there’s just I can’t keep up. Uh, I’m sorry, I’m feeling like I looked at Blue Sky. It’s probably going to happen. You could also email us podcast@friendsjournal.org or call our listener voicemail line 37-QUAKERS. We’ll have all of these details in our show notes. If this is a problem that can be fixed, we will repair it. Oh, and speaking of repair, Miche, you have a new monthly question for us.

Miche McCall: I do. What are some unexpected ways you find yourself drawn to repair? What are some unexpected ways you find yourself drawn to repair? I became a Quaker through a service year program named Quaker Voluntary Service. And during that time I learned about other service years, including a Jewish service year called Repair the World. My first thought was, wow, that’s kind of a bold claim. Yeah, that we can just repair the world. Repair the World in Hebrew is tikkun olam. It’s a belief that we have a responsibility to contribute to the betterment of the world. It’s not just a theoretical concept, but it’s a living tradition that inspires action to make the world a better place. And during a service year, you don’t have a whole lot of money to buy things. In a world that often prioritizes the new, I learned how to fix my bike, darn my socks, and even repair friendships.

Peterson Toscano: Oh, uh, I like the term darn my socks. I’ve not heard this in a long time. It sounds like something out of a Christmas song or something.

Miche McCall: It was a, uh, big hobby of my city coordinator was darning her socks.

Peterson Toscano: Did you first say when you saw the hold, you’re like, darn my socks. Then you darn them.

Miche McCall: Exactly.

Peterson Toscano: That’s how it works. So we’re talking about repairing all kinds of things, physical things, but also potentially emotional things. Friendships, relationships. Yeah, I get that.

Miche McCall: Absolutely. Yeah. And we want to, uh. yeah. Thinking of repair holistically. That it’s not just objects, but the things that we do in the world. And this month, listener, I’d like to hear from you about repair. What are some unexpected ways you find yourself drawn to repair? How and when have you found joy and meaning in mending things? This could be anything from mending clothes or addressing debt, to working towards restorative justice or repairing damaged relationships. What are some unexpected ways you find yourself drawn to repair? You can leave a voice memo with your name and the town where you live. The number to call is 317-QUAKERS. That’s 317-782-5377. 317-QUAKERS. +1 If you’re calling from outside the USA, you can also send us an email or comment on our social media posts. I’ll have these contact details in our show notes over at quakerstoday.org.

Peterson Toscano: Now we hear answers to the question, what novel, film or television series changed your relationship with the world? And first we look to answers on social media. On X, we hear from the queer Quaker. Hey, queer Quaker. Queerquaker writes, “I’d have to say the Dispossessed by Ursula K. Le Guin. It did an incredible job of fictionalizing the conflicts of the world while providing hope for a libertarian socialist future.”

Miche McCall: And on Instagram, @Emegrey wrote “The TV show Star the Next Generation. Since I was a young kid up until now, my reaction remains the same even when I watch the reruns with themes that explore the possibility of life on other planets. Science, technology, God, morality, our existence, and what it means to be human.”

Peterson Toscano: @ElaineEmmi wrote “Ray Bradbury, especially Fahrenheit 451.” And now we hear voicemails from listeners who answer this question: what novel, film or television series change your relationship with the world?

Adrian Glamorgan: George Orwell’s Homage to Catalonia and looking back at the Spanish Civil War. Because when there was a crisis of fascism, he went to do something about it. And he challenged the conventional thinking that there was either capitalism or Soviet Union communism and joined another group, the Catalonian anarchists. He reported, um, the war and realized that nothing that was being printed in the newspapers was true, and he realized how important truth was, and he was so committed to that. And what it’s mean for me is the truth is really important.

Sally Campbell: Sally Campbell from Morningside Meeting in New York City, Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer. That series of essays and stories gives me great hope. And I do think if we go back to the indigenous wisdom and learn from, just be open to the trees and whatever. Uh, the overstory was excellent, too. All right, take care. Bye.

Linda: Hi. This is Linda from Orcas Island Worship Group in Washington state. For me it was a particular scene in To Kill a Mockingbird when Scout showed up, and Atticus was holding vigil outside the jail, Scout showed up much to his chagrin as the Klansman came in their robes, Scout happened to recognize one of them, maybe it was by the shoes as a father of one of her classmates. And she started carrying on a conversation with him about his child. It totally diffused an otherwise violent situation. And to me, it was a prime example of how reaching for someone’s humanity, for that bit of God in another person no matter how much we disagree with their outward action, that reaching for that bit of God or humanity can diffuse a possible violence. The strength of love and care. Thank you. 

Peterson Toscano: Thanks for your answers.

Miche McCall: Thanks, listener. I’ll, uh, see you next month.