Season 6, Episode 4 of Quakers Today

In this episode of Quakers Today, co-hosts Peterson Toscano and Diana Yañez continue the season-long exploration of Quakers and money by focusing on wealth: inherited wealth, family stories, grief, control, reparations, and the spiritual practice of letting money move.

Their guest is Fran Brokaw, a Quaker who inherited significant wealth and began asking deeper questions about it. Not only: How should this money be invested? But also: Where did this money come from? What has it meant in my life? What harm is connected to it? What does faithfulness ask of me now?

Fran describes inherited wealth as feeling like the dragon’s hoard in The Hobbit: a pile of treasure guarded for the purpose of getting bigger and bigger. Through spiritual reflection, reparations work, and accountability, she began to see money not as something to hoard, but as something that could move through her as energy, love, repair, and community care.

In This Episode

Peterson, Diana, and Fran explore:

• inherited wealth and the stories attached to it
• the difference between guilt and responsibility
• reparations as a spiritual and financial practice
• giving without control or strings attached
• Quaker testimonies of simplicity, equality, stewardship, and integrity
• ethical investing and why it may be only one step
• wealth as grief, memory, safety, and power
• how money can become a channel for repair and love

Fran shares how a course with K. Melchor Quick Hall, Aiming for Justice: Race, Reparations, and Right Paths, helped her look directly at inherited money and the systems that made it possible. She came to see that even if her own ancestors did not directly enslave people or force Indigenous people from their land, her family wealth was still connected to stolen land, stolen labor, and the systems that benefited white families over generations.

One turning point came when Fran and her siblings sold a family house in Vermont. Fran chose to give her portion of the proceeds to the Northeast Farmers of Color Land Trust, connecting the money from that particular land to Indigenous, Black, refugee, migrant, and diasporic land stewards of color.

Featured Guest

Fran Brokaw is a Quaker whose reflections on inherited wealth, reparations, grief, and faithful money practice invite Friends to ask more honest questions about what we have received and what we are called to release.

Quaker Resource

Money as a Mutual Blessing by Lola Georg
Published in Friends Journal, October 2018

Lola Georg invites Friends to consider financial relationships as opportunities for mutual blessing. Drawing on George Fox’s call to “answer that of God in everyone,” she asks how money conversations might shift if we moved from anxiety and greed toward community, abundance, covenant, and generosity.

Outside Resource

The Landlord’s Game and the hidden history of Monopoly

Before Monopoly became a game about buying property, bankrupting friends, and crushing opponents, it began as The Landlord’s Game, created by Lizzie Magie in the early 1900s. Magie designed the game to teach players about land, wealth, rent, and monopoly power. Her original version included two sets of rules: one that rewarded shared prosperity and another that exposed the destructive logic of monopoly.

Resources:

• Philadelphia Yearly Meeting: “Quaker History: Clive Sansom, Ursula Franklin, Gordon Hirabayashi, and Lizzie Magie”
• Philadelphia Yearly Meeting: “Quakers Playing Monopoly”
• The Guardian: “The secret history of Monopoly: the capitalist board game’s leftwing origins”

Additional Resource

Northeast Farmers of Color Land Trust

NEFOC Land Trust is a community-centered land trust advancing land and food sovereignty through permanent and secure land tenure for farmers and landworkers cultivating deep, ancestral relationships with land.

Queries for Reflection

• What money stories did you inherit from your family?
• What forms of wealth, safety, or access have shaped your life?
• Where does money create anxiety in you or in your meeting?
• What are you holding more tightly than you need to?
• What would it mean to give without control?
• How might money become a channel for repair, relationship, and love?

Listener Question

What financial practices align with your values? What have you learned about money, wealth, enoughness, giving, investing, or repair?

Call and leave a voicemail: 317-QUAKERS
That’s 317-782-5377.
Outside the United States, dial +1 317-782-5377.

You can also email Peterson and Diana at [email protected].

Sponsors

Season 6 of Quakers Today is sponsored by Friends Fiduciary and the American Friends Service Committee.

Friends Fiduciary unites Quaker values with expert investing. Learn more at:
https://friendsfiduciary.org/

American Friends Service Committee works with communities worldwide to challenge injustice, meet urgent community needs, and build conditions for lasting peace. Learn more at: https://afsc.org/

Disclaimer

 

NO INVESTMENT ADVICE

The Content is for informational and educational purposes only. You should not construe any such information or other education material as legal, tax, investment, financial, or other advice. Content provided is also of general nature and does not address the circumstances of any particular individual or entity. Nothing contained constitutes a solicitation, recommendation, endorsement, or offer to buy or sell any securities or other financial instruments.

Diana Gisel Yañez is an Investment Advisor Representative of Natural Investments PBLLC. Natural Investments is an independent Registered Investment Advisor. Quakers Today and Friends Journal are not registered entities and are not affiliates or subsidiaries of Natural Investments. See our Disclosures and Disclaimers and read our Form CRS.

Next Episode

Next month on Quakers Today: Quakers and Reparations. How do we actually repair, and how can money help us repair?

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Transcript

Quakers and Wealth

Season 6, Episode 4 of the Quakers Today podcast

Complete Transcript

[00:00:00] Opening

Fran Brokaw: The money that I inherited from my parents, from my uncle, felt like the dragon in The Hobbit. I felt like I had this hoard of jewels and money and wealth that I’m guarding over. The goal of having that money is to have it get bigger and bigger and bigger.

Peterson Toscano: I’m Peterson Toscano.

Diana Yañez: And I’m Diana Yañez.

Peterson Toscano: This is season six, episode four of the Quakers Today podcast, a project of Friends Publishing Corporation.

Diana Yañez: This season, we are talking about Quakers and money. Last month, we took on capitalism, not in some abstract way, but by asking what it means for Friends to live with integrity in a system that, in my opinion, is shaped by extraction, inequality, colonialism, and environmental harm.

Peterson Toscano: And, Diana, near the end of that episode, the last episode, you introduced us to Fran Brokaw. We only heard a little from her then, but the image she used stayed with me: how her inherited wealth was like sitting on a dragon’s hoard.

Diana Yañez: Yes, Fran is a Quaker who inherited significant wealth. And over time, she began to ask deeper questions about it. Not only, “How should I invest this?” but “What is this money? Where did it come from? What has it meant in my life? And what does faithfulness ask of me now?” She talked about a process that included learning, discomfort, grief, accountability, and eventually releasing money in ways that changed her.

Peterson Toscano: And unlike our earlier episode, we’re going to just focus on Fran. She’s our main guest, our one guest, and I really appreciate going deep into her own story. Season six of Quakers Today is sponsored by the American Friends Service Committee and Friends Fiduciary. Thank you for your ongoing support.

Diana Yañez: Friends Fiduciary is a sponsor of this podcast. Sponsorship does not constitute an endorsement, and we do not receive compensation based on listener investment decisions. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute investment, legal, or tax advice. Listening does not create an advisory relationship.

Fran’s Story: Family Money and Emotional Meaning

Peterson Toscano: All right, so, Diana, we’re on a journey, and in the last episode, we were talking about capitalism and how so much of the world’s wealth has been built at the expense of other people and the environment. For me, it feels overwhelming, right? Seeing the pain and the suffering that comes from greed and concepts like unlimited growth and a single bottom line of profit over everything else. It causes pain.

Diana Yañez: It can. That is one reason Fran’s story felt so important to me. She brings the question down into one life, into family money and the emotional meaning that money can have. As they say, in the deeply personal lies the universal.

Peterson Toscano: Yeah. And in her case, money is not just numbers in an account; it’s also memory. For Fran, it represented safety and grief. With money come the stories we hear and tell ourselves, along with the shock that comes when we realize the stories are not always true.

Diana Yañez: Fran told me that a major turning point came through a course with K. Melchor Quick Hall called Aiming for Justice: Race, Reparations, and Right Paths. The course asks participants to look directly at money, what it means, where it came from, and what repair might require.

Fran Brokaw: Melchor got us to think deeply about money, what it means to us, and how it came to us. The whole thing of inherited wealth really hit me. The wealth that I have and that I inherited is really wealth that represents stolen land and stolen labor. Although my ancestors may not have owned slaves, even if they were all in the North, they were involved with mills and other things that, as good Quakers, they were making money with. That was bolstered by a slave economy and was done by forcing out the Indigenous inhabitants of the country and of the land that they were occupying, that they were living on, that they worked on. Initially, it made me feel guilty, but then realizing that I’m not guilty of owning other people or pushing people off their land, I benefit from it every day, and I have benefited from it all my life.

Peterson Toscano: Listen, Fran is not saying, “I personally did these bad things.”

[00:05:00]

Peterson Toscano: She’s saying, “I benefit from them.”

Diana Yañez: Yes. And I think that is where the spiritual work began for her. Guilt can really freeze a person, but responsibility can move a person. Melchor’s course gave Fran and the other participants practical experience, not just ideas to agree with. It started with giving money away in ways that challenge the habits most of us are taught to keep, like control and oversight and the unspoken assumption that the giver decides what counts as a good use of the money they gave.

Fran Brokaw: I learned that in reparations, my role is to release that money, not to have strings attached. I don’t need to know how that money gets spent. It’s not my responsibility to see that it gets spent in a way that I would approve of and that it goes to people who’ve been affected, and that they would then choose how that money is used.

Peterson Toscano: That’s the part that gets me. Like, I can imagine giving money away and then totally wanting to manage it from a distance.

Diana Yañez: Yeah, definitely. That is why this is not only about generosity. It’s about power. Who gets to decide? Who has to submit a report before someone believes they can use money wisely? Who has the power?

Peterson Toscano: And for Friends — Quakers, Quaker meetings — that raises all kinds of questions. We talk a lot about equality and community, but money, wow, that quickly puts us right back into a hierarchy.

Diana Yañez: Exactly. And once Fran started seeing that more clearly, she also started seeing the emotional posture she had toward the money itself.

Fran Brokaw: The first year I was in this workshop, I came home from it seeing the money that I inherited from my parents, from my uncle. It felt like the dragon in The Hobbit. I felt like I had this hoard of jewels and money and wealth that I’m guarding over. The goal of having that money is to have it get bigger and bigger and bigger.

Peterson Toscano: Yeah. This image is so useful. I mean, it’s funny in a way, but it’s also painfully accurate. The dragon doesn’t need the treasure. The dragon is not enjoying the treasure. The dragon just sits there guarding the treasure. And whenever the dragon does leave the lair, its mind is just fixated on the money, worrying someone’s going to steal it. The treasure totally defines the dragon’s purpose in life, which sounds extreme until I think about how normal it is to treat the accumulation as the goal, right? We save, invest, grow, and protect it, and then we pass it on to whoever.

Fran considered a question, though, that interrupted the cycle. She asked herself, “What is this money for?”

Diana Yañez: Yeah. Fran began to question that Scrooge McDuck instinct in a very concrete way. One example came when her family sold a house in Vermont that her parents had built.

Fran Brokaw: We sold the house. I took the portion that I received. I thought about how to give it to the people, the original caretakers of the land, the Abenaki people. I took my proceeds on that sale and gave it to Northeast Farmers of Color Land Trust. They help with Land Back movements for Indigenous tribes and groups. They provide monetary assistance as well as advice, teaching material, and assistance to farmers of color all over. That’s probably one of the bigger gifts that I have given through this new way of seeing finances.

Peterson Toscano: That takes the question of, “Where did this money come from?” and it makes it specific.

Diana Yañez: And specificity matters. It can be easy to talk about repair in broad moral language. Fran is asking, “What came to me from this particular place, and where might it need to go now?”

Peterson Toscano: Even then, it doesn’t sound like it became easy.

Diana Yañez: No, she was very honest about that. Even after all this work, she still notices the old reflexes.

Fran Brokaw: The money that I have should be a community asset. And I’m using the word should because it’s very easy with any racism work for me as a white woman to slide into the comfortable

[00:10:00]

Fran Brokaw: understanding of the world that I was given. As I grew up, I find myself at times thinking about giving money to a group, person, or school, whatever, and thinking, “Ooh, that’s a lot of money.” And then I think, “Is this my money? It shouldn’t belong to me. It should go through me. It should be a channel. I can channel it as energy, as love. Not hoard it, not let it just sit in a brokerage account.”

Peterson Toscano: I personally appreciate that Fran admits the reflex is still there, like, “That’s a lot of money.” I mean, I know that voice. Definitely not on the scale Fran is talking about, but I know the instinct to tighten my grip when money’s involved. In fact, I’ll sometimes think, “Oh, I want to donate $100 to something.” And then I’m like, “Well, I guess $75 is okay. Or maybe $50.” I just kind of whittle my way down.

Diana Yañez: Yeah. And that’s the reason that I want listeners to hear this not only as an episode for people with large inheritances, but for all of us. All of us are taught to have that Scrooge McDuck instinct. It’s really part of our culture and society.

Peterson Toscano: Especially for those of us in the United States. We may not all feel wealthy compared to our neighbors, but compared with the rest of the world, many of us have forms of wealth we barely recognize. Consider stable housing.

Fran Brokaw: Right.

Peterson Toscano: That’s a form of wealth. Education, citizenship, retirement accounts, family support, access to credit, and even the absence of debt.

Diana Yañez: So Fran had already tried to bring her values into her financial life. In a way, she had begun where many of us begin, by asking what her money was invested in.

Fran Brokaw: I was very aware of not wanting money that I invested to go to tobacco, firearms, military spending. I got out of the fossil fuel industry and a number of things like that, but that’s really not enough because the goal is still to grow the money, keep it under my control.

Peterson Toscano: That sounds like faithfulness to me. Fran was trying to make sure her money did less harm.

Diana Yañez: Yes. And that matters. As an investment advisor, I can say that ethical investing is a very meaningful beginning. Fran is not dismissing that. She is saying that for her, it became clear there was another question underneath it.

Peterson Toscano: Yeah. Not only, “What companies am I invested in?” but “Why am I still organizing my financial life around keeping this money under my control?” Ouch.

Diana Yañez: And that is where her Quaker values started pushing her beyond screening investments and toward releasing money.

Fran Brokaw: Quaker values that I believe in, the testimonies of simplicity, equity, and stewardship, are things that have become much more important in managing money and giving it away.

Peterson Toscano: So the question becomes, not only is my money doing harm, but also, why am I holding this much? What story am I telling myself about why I need to keep it, and who is affected by my keeping it?

Diana Yañez: Those are not easy questions, and they become even more complicated when money is connected to grief or family memory. Fran told a very painful story about money she received after her father and stepmother died.

Fran Brokaw: My father and stepmother were on an airplane that crashed in the ocean. Everyone died. It was most likely the co-pilot had locked the pilot out of the cabin and had intentionally crashed the plane in the ocean. My siblings and I sued the airline company and got a substantial settlement from them without them admitting that they had any fault. That money represented my father to me. That crash was in 1999, so it was a long time ago. After all the work I’d done, I was able to just say, “You know, that money is money, but it’s not money that represents my father. It’s not my father. My father was the person who was never late for work, never late for dinner, never took even a pencil from his workplace, lived by his ethics. My ethics did not include needing to hold on to that money any longer.” Releasing it feels good. It feels good.

Diana Yañez: When Fran said that, I heard a kind of

[00:15:00]

Diana Yañez: freedom in it.

Peterson Toscano: It’s not like she’s dismissing the grief, but she’s somehow able to separate the grief from the money.

Diana Yañez: And that separation allowed her to act from her values rather than from the fear that releasing the money meant losing her father again.

Peterson Toscano: Yeah, and that is another tender place in the story, because for some people, money isn’t about greed or privilege. Sometimes it’s about fear. Sometimes it’s about wanting to keep a person close. Sometimes it’s about trying to control a world that has already shown us how little control we have.

Diana Yañez: Yes. And Fran names that directly.

Fran Brokaw: One of the most important things that I’ve been learning my adult life is that I do not control everything and that I can’t control most things. I can control my intention. I can work hard for things, but I can’t control outcomes. This is another step in that journey of letting go the illusion that I can control things. I have found it very freeing, and I hope that other people are able to step into that uncomfortable place of letting go of control, the illusion that they have control. None of us get out of here alive. Do good while you can.

Peterson Toscano: Do good while you can. I like that. It’s not grandiose. It’s not like, fix the whole system by yourself. It’s definitely honest, right? She’s saying, be honest about what is in your hands and then do the next faithful thing.

Diana Yañez: Yeah. And Fran’s story gives us a few possible next faithful things. Ask where the money came from. Notice what stories and emotions are attached to it. Find people who can help you stay accountable. Practice giving without control. Let your values shape not only how money is invested, but how it moves.

Peterson Toscano: Even if we don’t have inherited wealth like Fran, we can still ask, “What have I received that I did not earn alone? What forms of safety or access have shaped my life? What am I holding more tightly than I need to?” And I appreciate your reminder not to feel guilty, because guilt often comes in for this, and shame too. And so that’s a good reminder, asking these questions objectively without guilt.

Diana Yañez: Right, right. So moving past the frozen point so that you can actually take action and consider what might be possible if money became less of a guarded hoard and more of a way to repair, reconnect, and love.

Resource: Money as a Mutual Blessing

Peterson Toscano: Each episode of this series, we’re sharing resources from the Friends Journal publishing world. And this month we want to highlight an article by Lola Georg. It’s entitled “Money as a Mutual Blessing.” Lola is one of the people you interviewed, Diana, for this season, and her article gives us language for something Fran has been showing us in her own life.

Diana Yañez: It was a pleasure to interview Lola, and she begins this article with a scene that will probably feel familiar to a lot of Friends: a meeting for business where the budget comes up and suddenly the energy in the room changes. People get anxious. People start protecting the things that matter to them. Money becomes a place where fear, scarcity, and old wounds surface.

Peterson Toscano: Instead of treating that anxiety as a failure, Lola does something brilliant and asks what might happen if we approached financial relationships as opportunities for mutual blessing. She draws on George Fox’s familiar phrase about answering that of God in everyone, but she doesn’t leave it as a nice Quaker saying. Lola asks what it would mean if our financial dealings actually became places where we bless one another and allow ourselves to be blessed in return.

Diana Yañez: One of the sections I find especially helpful is where she talks about moving from anxiety and greed to what Walter Brueggemann calls milk and honey. That shift is a movement away from isolation and self-protection and toward community, covenant, abundance, and generosity.

Peterson Toscano: You can read Lola Georg’s article, “Money as a Mutual Blessing,” at friendsjournal.org. We will include a direct link in the show notes at quakerstoday.org.

Diana Yañez: And as you read this article, you might ask yourself, where does money create anxiety in me or in my meeting? And what would it look like to move even a little toward mutual blessing?

Resource: The Landlord’s Game

Peterson Toscano: We also have an outside resource I want to talk about: a game almost everybody knows, Monopoly. Not the version many of us grew

[00:20:00]

Peterson Toscano: up playing, where the goal is to buy up property, bankrupt your friends and family, and somehow still be invited back for dinner. We want to talk about the game that came before Monopoly. And this was your idea to bring this game to us.

Diana Yañez: Yeah. I love this origin story. So the original game was called The Landlord’s Game, created by Lizzie Magie in the early 1900s. Magie was a writer, inventor, and political thinker. As far as we know, she was not a Quaker, but she did spend time in Arden, Delaware, a free-thinking community co-founded by Quaker architect William Lightfoot Price. Her game became popular in some Quaker schools and communities.

Peterson Toscano: The Landlord’s Game was not designed as a celebration of ruthless capitalism. It was actually meant to teach people about land, wealth, rent, and monopoly power. Magie created two sets of rules. In one version, players were rewarded together when wealth was created. In the other, players tried to create monopolies and crush their opponents.

Diana Yañez: Is anyone surprised that it’s the crushing-your-opponents version that survived and became wildly popular? The cooperative lesson faded, and the game that most of us know is winner takes all.

Peterson Toscano: Yeah, exactly. And that’s why I find The Landlord’s Game useful, because it turns economics into an experience. You do not only hear about land ownership, rent, or extraction. You feel it, right? You feel how a system shapes people’s behavior. And you can imagine that the rules could have been different.

Diana Yañez: Yes, and that connects directly to Fran’s story. She was not only asking how to play the game more ethically; she was asking whether she needed to keep playing by the same rules anyway: accumulation, control, inheritance, and the pressure to make that pile bigger.

Peterson Toscano: Check out Lizzie Magie’s The Landlord’s Game. We’ve included links in the show notes to an article in The Guardian and to a Philadelphia Yearly Meeting piece about Magie, Quakers, and an Atlantic City connection.

Diana Yañez: And maybe the next time you see a Monopoly board, you can ask, “What economic lesson am I learning here? And what would happen if we changed the rules?”

Closing and Listener Invitation

Peterson Toscano: For you listening, thank you for joining Diana and me for this episode of Quakers Today. Diana, thank you. This is a real, genuine journey for me. You have no idea the kind of questions I’ve been asking. And I’ll have an article in Friends Journal about it soon. If you don’t know, we have a monthly column that we’re putting in that coincides with this series. A very special thank you to Fran Brokaw for sharing so much of her story with us. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Diana Yañez: You will find show notes, links, and a full transcript of this episode over at quakerstoday.org. You can also watch a video version of this episode, including the interview I had with Fran, on the Friends Journal YouTube page.

Peterson Toscano: I want to give many thanks to listeners leaving comments on our TikTok and Instagram page and to the listeners who left voicemails. We enjoy sharing your thoughts, questions, and insights.

Diana Yañez: Please consider leaving your own voicemail for us to share with listeners. What financial practices align with your values? Call and leave a message at 317-QUAKERS. That’s 317-782-5377. Plus one if you’re calling from outside the U.S. The number again is 317-QUAKERS.

Peterson Toscano: You can also email Diana and me. That email address is [email protected]. [email protected]. Is there any way to email that dog that’s barking in your neighborhood and just thanking it for co-hosting with us?

Diana Yañez: That is our 9:28 a.m. dog. We have another one that will be barking at 9:33.

Peterson Toscano: You can find out all the ways to contact us in our show notes. Just visit our website, quakerstoday.org.

Sponsors

Peterson Toscano: Season six of Quakers Today is sponsored by Friends Fiduciary. Friends Fiduciary unites Quaker values with expert investing. They serve more than 460 organizations with ethical portfolios, shareholder advocacy, and a deep commitment to justice and sustainability. At Friends Fiduciary, investing is about maximizing returns to support your mission. And it’s also about your values. For over 125 years, Friends Fiduciary has provided affordable professional investment management to meetings, churches, and schools. Today, they manage $800 million in assets for over 460

[00:25:00]

Peterson Toscano: organizations. Learn more at friendsfiduciary.org.

Diana Yañez: This season of Quakers Today is also sponsored by the American Friends Service Committee, AFSC. The American Friends Service Committee works with communities worldwide to challenge injustice, meet urgent community needs, and build conditions for lasting peace. Since 1948, AFSC has worked for a just and lasting peace in Palestine and Israel. Today, its Gaza team has delivered aid to over 1 million displaced Palestinians. In the U.S. and across the world, AFSC is working with Quaker meetings, other faith groups, and communities of conscience to advocate for an end to the genocide, to cut all ties with Israeli apartheid, and build an apartheid-free world. Join the movement by writing a minute to identify your community as apartheid-free. Visit afsc.org/apartheid-free for more info.

Next Episode and Final Disclaimer

Peterson Toscano: Diana, our next episode, I’m so excited about.

Diana Yañez: We’re looking at Quakers and reparations. How do we actually repair? And how can money help us repair?

Peterson Toscano: Yeah, I’m looking forward to that. Thank you, friend, for spending this time with us.

Diana Yañez: May you grow in creativity, curiosity, and compassion.

Peterson Toscano: Before we end, could you just give us a big, robust disclaimer? Because I love these disclaimers so much. They just add so much beauty to the show.

Diana Yañez: They’re part of my fiduciary responsibility. So remember that all investments involve risk, and decisions should be made based on your individual circumstances, ideally in consultation with a qualified professional. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the hosts, Natural Investments, or its affiliates. And yes, sometimes I do sound like a pharmaceutical rep.

Peterson Toscano: But yeah, listening to this episode will lead to bleeding. More empathy? Hopefully not.

Listener Question: How to Download Episodes

Peterson Toscano: We haven’t had a question of the month like normal, but there is a general question. What do you have to say about money? What are some lessons that you’ve learned, some insights that you’ve gained? And I’m so grateful for the following message that we’ve received.

Arlie Helm: Hi, this is Arlie Helm from Grass Valley Friends Meeting in Northern California. I have a question, which I will say the simple way first, but then I’ll say it the more complicated way. How do I download your podcast to an MP3-type player to listen to offline?

Peterson Toscano: Hey, thanks for this question, and I’m going to answer it right now. But I’m also interested in the longer question, and I want to share that too. But yes, you can download our podcast because we upload it to a service called Podbean. So if you go to quakerstoday.org, there should be a Podbean player there. And when you go to that Podbean player, there’s an option to download the podcast. All you do is go to quakerstoday.org. It’ll show you the list of our episodes. Click on the episode you want, and at the top of the show notes is the Podbean player. If you go to the top right, there are some options, including a little download option. Click on that, and it will just download the episode. I just did it. It works beautifully. So that is how you get your MP3 file. Now I want to hear the long version: why do you need this?

Arlie Helm: The complicated question is this: I like to listen to Quaker podcasts while I swim laps for an hour. So that means no Bluetooth. It has to be downloaded to the memory in my headset to swim. I have done this for many years, but it’s getting more complicated recently because there has been a recent shift for all the podcasts I listen to to go to streaming platforms for listening, which I obviously cannot do. I cannot use any streaming platform. It has to be downloaded as an MP3. Thanks very much. Look forward to hearing from you. Bye-bye.

Peterson Toscano: Thank you so much for that question. We want more questions, so

[00:30:00]

Peterson Toscano: feel free to call us. Find out all the details of how you can connect with us at quakerstoday.org. Our phone number is 317-QUAKERS. That’s 317-782-5377. Make me happy. Send a voicemail, and thanks for listening.