Season 3, episode 2. In this episode of Quakers Today, we ask, “What does it mean to be welcomed in a space?”

Peterson Toscano (he/him) and Miche McCall (they/them) discuss the concept of feeling welcome. Miche describes their sense of safety under a blanket while podcasting from Logrono, Spain, during their Camino de Santiago pilgrimage. They explore how welcoming spaces can be challenging for individuals with unique identities, especially in religious settings, and emphasize that genuine inclusivity often differs from mere proclamations of welcome.

Rhiannon Grant 

“If the Quaker community were a household, who would be the owners and who would be the guests?”

Peterson Toscano chats with Rhiannon Grant (she/her) from Woodbrooke Quaker Learning and Research Centre about her article, “A Family of Friends,” which explores the importance of creating welcoming spaces within Quaker communities. Rhiannon, a lifelong Quaker and member of various faith communities, uses the metaphor of a household to explore the roles and feelings of welcome within Quaker meetings. She also discusses how implicit signals can create exclusion and emphasizes the significance of creating spaces where diverse theological beliefs are openly discussed and valued.

Learn more about Rhiannon Grant

Rhiannon Grant is Woodbrooke’s Deputy Programme Leader for Research and Programme Coordinator for Modern Quaker Thought. Rhiannon’s work at Woodbrooke spans academic and practice-based approaches to Quakerism. She teaches in Woodbrooke’s short course program, supervises research, and teaches postgraduate students within the Centre for Research in Quaker Studies. Outside Woodbrooke, she researches and writes about Quakers for both academic and general audiences, as well as writing fiction and poetry.

Her interests center on British Quakerism in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries, especially Quaker theology, ways of speaking about God, and the developments in practice and religious diversity. 

You can follow Rhiannon as @bookgeekrelng on X and on Facebook. Watch a YouTube video of her keynote address about Deep Hospitality. Read her Pendle Hill pamphlet Telling the Truth About God: Quaker Approaches to Theology, and look out for a new one entitled Deep Hospitality.  

Lisa Graustein on What is a Welcoming Space?

Lisa Graustein (she/her), a diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) facilitator, discusses creating truly welcoming spaces in Quaker meetings by ensuring physical accessibility and accommodating diverse needs. She emphasizes the importance of inclusivity, recognizing varied contributions, and continually evaluating if all voices are being heard and needs met. This approach requires ongoing effort and reflection to foster genuine inclusivity.

This is a short excerpt from a QuakerSpeak video featuring a variety of voices. The video is entitled What’s the Difference Between a Welcoming and an Inclusive Space? See more videos like this on the QuakerSpeak YouTube channel or at QuakerSpeak.org.

Learn more about Lisa Graustein.

Lisa Graustein is a teacher, facilitator, and artist who holds an MEd in racial justice education. For 20 years, she taught in public middle and high schools. Currently, Lisa works as a DEI facilitator and trainer with schools and nonprofits throughout the northeast. She has been a facilitator for Beyond Diversity 101. A Univeralist Friend, she is part of a group of Quakers founding Three Rivers Meeting, a Queer, Christian Quaker meeting. A solo mom and potter, Lisa lives in an intentional community on the unceded Neponset Band of the Massachusetts land.

Reviews

More than a Dream: The Radical March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom by Yohuru Williams and Michael G. Long provides an in-depth look at the 1963 March on Washington, highlighting the crucial roles of activists like Bayard Rustin. This makes it ideal for middle school students. The book has been longlisted for the 2023 National Book Awards in the category of Young People’s Literature.

The First Day of Peace by Todd Schuster and Maya Soetoro-Ng, illustrated by Tatiana Gardel, tells the story of two communities coming together to help each other, illustrating the concept of peace and welcome for children.

• More than a Dream: The Radical March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom reviewed by Gwen Gosney Erickson
• The First Day of Peace reviewed by Katie Green

See all of the May 2024 Reviews on Friends Journal.

Closing 

Peterson and McCall discuss their upcoming participation in the 2024 Friends General Conference at Haverford College, where Miche will lead earth-centered worship with Quaker Earth Witness and Peterson will conduct interviews for the podcast. 

You can now follow Quakers Today on Instagram, TikTok, and the platform now known as X. 

Question for next month

Who is a historical figure whom you admire but whose actions and words also trouble you?

Historians, activists, and content creators help us gain a fuller, more balanced view of often revered historical figures. We learn that the heroes of old were not perfect. 

Leave a text or voice memo with your name and the town where you live. The number to call is 317-QUAKERS, that’s 317-782-5377. +1 if calling from outside the U.S. You can also comment on our social media or email us podcast@friendsjournal.org. 

 

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Transcript for Quakers and Welcome

SPEAKERS

Rhiannon Grant, Peterson Toscano, Miche McCall, Mark, Lisa Graustein, Margaret Wood

Miche McCall  00:01

In this episode of Quakers Today, we ask what it means to be welcomed. 

Peterson Toscano  00:06

Lisa Graustein considers how Quaker meetings communicate whether they are welcoming or not. And Rhiannon Grant wonders if a Quaker community were a large household, who would be the owners, the family, the visitors, and the outliers. I’m Peterson Toscano,

Miche McCall  00:24

And I’m Miche McCall. This is season three, episode three of the Quakers Today podcast, a project of Friends Publishing Corporation. This season of Quakers Today is sponsored by the American Friends Service Committee.

Peterson Toscano  00:38

Hi Miche, it’s great to have you back talking about welcome and welcoming spaces. Do you feel welcomed right now where you are?

Miche McCall  00:46

I am currently under a blanket so I can’t think of a more safe and welcoming place for myself.

Peterson Toscano  00:52

Which I know a lot of people think what is that about? Why would you be under a blanket? But it is a classic move of podcasters and radio people when they’re on the road. So we’re on the road are you?

Rhiannon Grant  01:03

Logroño in central northern Spain. I just finished my seventh day walking on the Camino de Santiago, which is a religious pilgrimage across all of Spain.

Peterson Toscano  01:14

And it’s a very international sort of thing. I know people come from all over the world. How are you feeling? Being there as an American, as a queer nonbinary American? How welcome are you?

Rhiannon Grant  01:27

I feel incredibly welcome by the people who are walking. Though I feel separate from many people because of an aspect of my identity that’s hard to explain when first meeting someone.

Peterson Toscano  01:43

Lots of times, people don’t feel welcome in other countries, particularly in religious spaces. 

Miche McCall  01:49

Mmm.

Peterson Toscano  01:49

Lots of people will see an “All Welcome” sign in front of a church, but we know some restrictions apply, and we know who we are. That we know that we’re may not genuinely be welcome, and that’s what this episode is all about. And before we jump into it, though, listener, we want you to know you are welcome not only to listen to this podcast but on our new social media channels which we have created. 

Peterson Toscano  02:19

So let’s get to the program. I had the opportunity to speak with Rhiannon Grant, the Deputy Program Leader and Program Coordinator at Woodbrooke. Woodbrooke is an international Quaker learning and research center that’s based in Britain. Rhiannon wrote an article for Friends Journal about welcoming spaces.

Rhiannon Grant  02:43

I am a Quaker, I grew up as a Quaker, so I’m a cradle-Quaker, although not technically a birthright friend. I’m also a member of some other faith communities, so in particular, I’m a Druid, a member of the Order of Bards, Ovates and Druids. I’m in touch with the Buddhist community, the community I’m into being, I’m a woman, I’m a cis woman, I’m a white woman in the British context, I’m a middle class woman that can come over differently in other cultural contexts. I’m a queer woman I’m bi and I’m married to a woman. We got married in a Quaker wedding three years ago now that’s hard to believe that it’s gone that quickly. 

Rhiannon Grant  03:34

If the Quaker community were a household, who would be the owners and who would be the guests? Even a small meeting is usually bigger than the nuclear family household we often picture today. So it might be useful to think about communal living, extended families, or the sorts of large household described in 19th-century novels. These groups often center around a few people, a central couple, perhaps, or a core group who set things up. If your meeting was a big household all living together, what would you feel your role to be? Are you an adult member of the core family, secure in your position, and able to have a say in what happens? Perhaps you feel like a family member, but not part of the core. Perhaps like a child or an in-law or a distant cousin, acknowledged but sometimes ignored, not taken seriously for whatever reason, and sometimes anxious about whether you can stay or not. Perhaps you know that you’re a guest only present on a temporary basis and happy. Perhaps, you’d like to join the family but get treated as a guest. Some big households have actual staff and some treat certain members of the family like employees. There can be deeply ambiguous positions in such households. Senior staff might be said to feel like part of the family. But what looks one way to the family may not seem the same to the staff.

Rhiannon Grant  05:23

I remember hearing someone speak in ministry actually about wanting to be friends, what does it mean that we’re the religious Society of Friends? Or what does it mean to really be friendly to one another? And I remember thinking, then friends is all well and good. But actually, when you come into membership, when you make a public lifelong commitment to a community, doesn’t that take it to something deeper? 

Peterson Toscano  05:50

Mmm.

Rhiannon Grant  05:50

And I guess I probably started thinking about family or that was one of the things that put me on that track.

Peterson Toscano  05:58

I’m curious about Quaker meetings. I mean, there’s so many religious institutions, Christian churches, I think of in particular, that have these big bold signs, “All Welcome.” But we know that in some denominations and traditions, there are some exceptions that apply. 

Rhiannon Grant  06:15

The people who are not welcome work that out quite quickly, usually, even if we aren’t explicit about it. Definitely, I’ve heard stories, for example, about someone who was really involved in a Quaker community, but got comments like, “you don’t dress like the rest of us, do you?” It might be true, but the way that it’s said and the fact of that observation being important enough to someone to make it out loud shows off the ways in which someone is different. In that case, I think along class lines, and people feel unwelcome. They draw their own conclusions from that sort of comment, usually, rightly, 

Peterson Toscano  07:01

Again, I’m thinking broadly of various faith communities, there are tiers of welcome, right? There’s different levels. So you may be welcome to sit in the pews, or sit in the seats, but not welcome to serve.

Rhiannon Grant  07:15

I have sometimes been treated in ways that made me think people are reading my age as something that means they don’t trust me as a responsible adult. I’m still a university student, even though I’m doing a PhD. And I’ve heard people say things like, well, so-and-so’s very enthusiastic, but I’m not sure he’s reliable. Do you mean that he’s young? And yeah, there are lots of ways sexuality, but also age, people’s assumptions about gender, and what kinds of roles are associated with different gender presentations and things. They are all factors in what kinds of service we’re offered.

Peterson Toscano  08:00

How do theological diversity and personal beliefs impact the sense of belonging or exclusion within the Quaker community? And can you provide an example of how these tensions have been navigated? 

Rhiannon Grant  08:14

We can see it as a richness, we can see it as threatening. People often feel that sense of not wanting to share your whole self, not feeling that maybe you’re really welcome. And I think that can happen around theological diversity. I do hear stories from people who say, Well, I’m really a Christian and I don’t feel that that’s welcome my Quaker meeting, or I’m really a non-theist and I don’t feel that that’s welcome in my Quaker meeting. I once heard both of those things from people who turned out to be in the same meeting. And I thought maybe what’s going on there is that we’re not talking about it enough. There is something about trying to make spaces in which we feel safe enough to be vulnerable and to share some of those things, often to find out that actually that diversity is welcome, even though we might feel quite cautious around sharing.

Miche McCall  09:32

That was Rhiannon Grant from the Woodbrooke Quaker Learning Center in Birmingham, England. She is the author of the soon to be released Pendle Hill pamphlet Deep Hospitality. Rhiannon wrote the article, “A Family of friends? Taking Welcome to a Deeper Level.” It appears in the May 2024 issue of Friends Journal. You could also read it at Friendsjournal.org.

Peterson Toscano  10:16

Okay, let’s bring another voice into this conversation about welcome and inclusion. Lisa Graustein. She’s an educator, facilitator and artist with a master of education in racial justice education. Lisa has been teaching in public, middle and high schools for 20 years.

Miche McCall  10:37

Currently, Lisa works as a diversity, equity and inclusion facilitator and trainer with schools and nonprofits across the Northeast [U.S.].

Lisa Graustein  10:48

When I think about a welcoming space, I think about a space where I can walk in and have some immediate orientation to “am I safe here?” Am I going to be able to figure out how I need to be here? Whether that’s my home meeting, whether that’s somebody else’s meeting or Quaker church. If I walk in a meeting door, and somebody says, “welcome, can I give you some information about our meeting?” That’s really different than if I walk in the door and say, “Oh, are you a Quaker?” Many people in the U.S. will assume I’m a Quaker because I fit a lot of the demographic norms of what a Quaker looks like. I know for some of my friends of color, that’s not their experience walking in the door. And that are you a Quaker can be an assumption of somehow think maybe you don’t belong here, it’d be implied. What are all the things we do to make those spaces accessible? That is where we get the deeper work of inclusion. Can people physically access the building? Can they meet their physical and cognitive needs in the way that we’re doing programming? And is there space to get whatever accommodations might be needed? Are we acting as if our young people are fully a part of our body? Or these kids that are kind of there some of the time? Do we understand that parents of young children, that people who might be in a process of transition or coming out, that people who are grieving or carrying other intense needs might need different care than those of us who are not at one of those stages of life?

Lisa Graustein  12:25

Are we paying attention to the fact that national events are gonna land differently in different ones of us based on the identities we carry? Are we recognizing that some of us might contribute money, some of us might contribute time, some of us might contribute prayer, and some of us might not be in a place to contribute anything, and that all of that is valued? And for each of us that will probably change over our lifetime. Doesn’t have to be perfect, but it has to be really trying and really working. And we have to pause and say are there voices we’re not hearing? Are there people who have left us because they didn’t feel welcome here? Are there things I am doing that are not welcoming to others? And how can you help me learn those? And how can I help you to learn the places where you might have gaps? And how do we see those moments as acts of faithfulness?

Peterson Toscano  13:22

That was Lisa Graustein, and in a short excerpt from a much longer QuakerSpeak video, featuring a variety of voices.

Peterson Toscano  13:30

 The video is entitled “What’s the Difference Between a Welcoming and an Inclusive Space?”

Peterson Toscano  13:34

You will find this QuakerSpeak video and the QuakerSpeak channel on YouTube, or visit quakerspeak.com.

Miche McCall  13:44

As a Universalist Friend, she’s a part of a group of Quakers who are establishing the Three Rivers Meeting. This is a queer Christian Quaker meeting that gathers online. I’ve been before it is a really great community, and we’ll have links to their worship and vespers in our show notes. 

Miche McCall  14:04

Each month, Friends Journal writers review books that speak to Quakers. Today, I’ll tell you about two recently reviewed books that appeal especially to children and Young Adults. When I think about historical events, it’s often in simple terms. The Supreme Court made gay marriage legal. Abraham Lincoln freed enslaved people. But in those oversimplifications, we forget the enormous amount of work activists do to get us there. Gwen Gosney Erickson reviewed the book More Than a Dream: The Radical March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom written by Yohuru Williams, and Michael G. Long. Quote “60 years after the event, plenty of information is now available about the 1963 March on Washington. This book delivers more than just the quick facts and quotes centering on Martin Luther King Jr.’s is monumental “I Have a Dream” speech. It opens with Bayard Rustin meeting with his mentor, A. Philip Randolph, to discuss strategy for what would become the 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom” End quote. 

Bayard Rustin, has popped up, seemingly out of nowhere, in Quaker consciousness recently. Again, activists, historians and many, many Quakers have worked to bring his story to all of us. This book is ideal for anyone, especially middle school students. Dr. King envisioned a welcoming and beloved community, which is also illustrated in the children’s book, Katie Green reviewed The First Day of Peace, which is written by Todd Schuster [and Maya Soetoro-Ng] and illustrated by Tatiana Gardel. Quote “The story is about two communities, the mountain people and the valley people. A wise and brave mountain girl became aware of hardships among the valley people and called on her community to help them. The valley people reciprocated with gifts from their culture. They told stories and got to know each other, the friendship spread into a day of peace. End Quote. The First Day of Peace demonstrates the power of welcome and brings the sometimes abstract idea of peace into focus for our young friends. The full reviews for the books, The First Day of Peace and More Than a Dream: The Radical March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom are in the May 2024 issue of Friends Journal, and they’re available at friendsjournal.org.

Peterson Toscano  16:44

Miche, any big summer plans coming up?

Miche McCall  16:46

Oh my gosh. Well, I will be at the 2024 Friends General Conference or FGC Gathering at Haverford College.

Peterson Toscano  16:56

Get out. I’m going to be there too. 

Miche McCall  16:59

You are? I’m excited. 

Peterson Toscano  17:01

Yeah, yeah. I knew you’re gonna be there. But what’s your primary purpose for being at Friends General Conference?

Miche McCall  17:08

My main job will be working at the Earthcare Center, running morning eEarthcare-centered worship. What will you be doing there?

Peterson Toscano  17:18

Like you, I’ll be enjoying the whole thing as well. But also, I’ll be on the ground as Quakers , Today, co-host interviewing people that we meet. As a result of this, our next episode will not be next month, but in two months on July 16. It’s a Tuesday. And this way we can include people’s voices that we meet. We’ll be talking a lot about leadership and what do you do with complicated leaders and historical figures?

Miche McCall  17:46

Since we’re new, do you think we’ll have any pieces of paper or something to get people to know our podcast?

Peterson Toscano  17:53

Yeah, like little handheld things, but we need to be eco-friendly. Because, right?. We’re Quakers and that’s what we do. Of coursehorse. I’m thinking I might bring some Quakers Today pins for folks.

Miche McCall  18:02

Oh, exciting. I will put several of them on my reusable tote bag. 

Peterson Toscano  18:08

Perfect. Well, thank you, Miche. It’s been great all the way from Spain under a blanket chatting with you.

18:17

Absolutely it’s been great to see you under something you call a halo.

Peterson Toscano  18:21

That’s right, and I get to see you in person for the first time at FGC Ggathering. And thank you for joining us for this episode of Quakers, Today. If you like our show, please rate and review us wherever you listen to it. Many thanks to everyone who has been sharing Quakers Today with their friends and on social media. We can be found on Ttwitter Tiktok, and Instagram. Quakers, Today is written and produced by me Peterson Toscano,

18:50

and me. Miche McCall. Music oOn today’s show comes from Epidemic Sound.

Peterson Toscano  18:55

Season three of Quakers Today is sponsored by American Friends Service Committee. Do you want to challenge unjust systems and promote lasting peace? The American Friends Service Committee or AFSC works with communities worldwide to drive social change. Their website features meaningful steps you can take to make a difference. Through their friends liaison program, you can connect your meeting or church with AFSC and their justice campaigns. Find out how you can become part of AFSC’s global community of changemakers visit afsc.org That’s afsc.org

Miche McCall  19:39

Visit Quakers today.org to see our show notes and a full transcript of this episode. If you stick around after our closing, you’ll hear listeners responses to the question, what does it mean to be welcomed? 

Peterson Toscano  19:54

Thank you friend. It’s been great spending time with you today.

Peterson Toscano  20:14

In a moment, you will hear listeners responses about what they see hear or experience that makes them feel welcome. 

Miche McCall  20:21

But first, we will tell you next month the question. Here it is, “who is a historical figure whom you admire, but whose actions and words also trouble you?” Historians, activists, and even content creators have been helping us gain a fuller, more balanced view of often revered historical figures. We’re learning that the heroes of old were not perfect.

Peterson Toscano  20:49

Uh-uh. No, Miche could you give an example of someone like this? 

Miche McCall  20:53

Absolutely, so, last month, we featured Tykee James, who’s the head of the recently renamed D.C. chapter of the Audubon Society. The society was originally named after John James Audubon, a renowned artist known for his realistic drawings of North American birds. His work inspired conservationists to protect birds from being killed for fashion. However, he was also an enslaver, which has only recently become widely known and written about. As a result, the DC chapter dropped the Audubon name and now is calling itself the DC Bird Alliance. Most other chapters and the National Audubon organization, though, will continue to use his name. According to Jacob Fenston at DCist, quote, “Board members of the national group decided that the name Audubon is now much more strongly associated with bird conservation than it is with the 19th-century ornithologist and artist who originally inspired the organization’s name.”

Peterson Toscano  22:04

Yeah, complicated. 

Miche McCall  22:06

Yeah.

Peterson Toscano  22:07

I’m thinking of another complicated historical figure who’s a little bit more current from the 20th-century, Truman Capote who was a trailblazer of literature, his nonfiction novel In Cold Blood literally revolutionized the genre of nonfiction. He was also openly gay, he had a lot of courage to be openly gay in a society that had a lot of stigma against homosexuals, as they were called at the time. And although he was really widely celebrated on television, and by critics because he had amazing storytelling prowess, he privately struggled with addiction. He had this thirst for fame that he would run over friends. He created lots of foes, and he played fast and loose with facts. So today, as like I learn more about his complex persona, Truman Capote is not only a literary icon, but he also is a symbol of the intricacies of human nature, and the weight of societal expectations, and how they can misshape us and how we can let them overwhelm us. 

Miche McCall  23:17

And so listener, how about you? Who is a historical figure whom you admire, but whose actions and words also trouble you? Text or leave a message with your name and the town where you live. The number is 317-Quakers, that’s 317-782-5377. 317-Quakers. +1 if calling or texting from outside the USA. You can also send us an email. We have these contact details in our show notes over at quakerstoday.org.

Peterson Toscano  23:54

Now, we hear answers to the question: “When you walk into a space, what do you see hear or experience that makes you feel welcome and what might be present that leads you to conclude you may not be welcome?”

24:07

This month, we received the following message on our Quakers Today TikTok account @KiruG_Official commented, “If they ask why are you here more than once? Also, if they don’t offer you tea and biscuits, you ain’t welcome.”

Peterson Toscano  24:25

Yeah, absolutely. That’s a deal breaker, no tea and biscuits, you don’t want me, obviously.

Miche McCall  24:29

You don’t want to be here.

Margaret Wood  24:32

Hi, my name is Margaret Wood and I am answering the query about what makes me feel welcome. I live in a camper van by choice and I have a home base at a family homestead in WyalusingWyomissing, Pennsylvania, being a lifelong traveler who has migrated twice and lived on four continents. And now on wheels, welcoming spaces are critical for me and not just for community, but for safety and my health. And what makes me feel good welcome is diversity. My lifestyle is homeless adjacent, if I notice gates, or I noticed access to public spaces is only available for those who have a smartphone, or there’s just a general tone of loud signage that is not informative, but it’s more there to scare people away, or to set boundaries in a fierce power over way rather than power with way, I feel unwelcome. 

Margaret Wood  25:33

And the other thing that makes me feel welcome is a culture of caring for the space and the land, if there’s trash has been picked up if there’s a sense of love and community and people feeling comfortable too. I feel safe. Obviously things that make me conclude I may not be welcome, mostly, I trust my intuition and it tells me that something is often generally I can’t articulate this is the reason I’m not feeling safe or I’m not feeling welcome for hours later. But I definitely trust my gut now more than I ever did in my life. When I feel that people who are different people who look different people who are curious and care are welcome then then I feel welcome even though I pass as a perfectly normal older woman that knows most people do not feel threatened by, it matters to me that a place is open for everybody.

Mark  26:35

Hi, this was Mark. I’m calling from Jacksonville, Florida, calling you because you asked me to I just enjoyed your podcast, season three episode two and with the Neptune Beach, Florida Quakers we meet at Neptune Beach near Jacksonville, Florida. I enjoyed your podcast and I’ve added it to my list of podcasts to listen to. Thank you so much!