Season 4, Episode 3. In this episode, co-hosts Peterson Toscano (he/him) and Miche McCall (they/them) explore the deep connections between Quaker spirituality, nature, and Indigenous wisdom. This episode features Gail Melix, an Indigenous Quaker who shares how walking in the woods transformed her experience of burnout into a practice of prayerful meditation. Paula Palmer examines the legacy of Quaker-run Indigenous boarding schools and the painful losses experienced by Indigenous children. We also hear about Robin Wall Kimmerer’s book The Serviceberry, which invites us to reimagine our relationship with abundance, reciprocity, and the natural world.

 

Healing Through Walking Meditation: Gail Greenwater’s Story

Gail Melix (also known as Greenwater,) a member of Sandwich Meeting in Massachusetts and a member of the Herring Pond Wampanoag tribe, shares how she found healing through daily woodland walks. Facing burnout from social justice work, Gail sought guidance from Quaker and Indigenous elders and turned to nature for restoration. Through walking meditation, she discovered deep stillness, a renewed sense of peace, and even moments of profound connection with wildlife.

In The Delight of Being a Walking Prayer: Meditation for Healing, published in the February 2025 issue of Friends Journal, Gail reflects on the gifts of nature, the importance of listening to the land, and how slowing down can restore inner balance.

 

Reckoning with the Legacy of Quaker Boarding Schools

Paula Palmer, a Quaker researcher and activist, delves into the historical trauma inflicted by Quaker-run Indigenous boarding schools. Through an excerpt from a QuakerSpeak video, Paula describes how Indigenous children were forcibly separated from their families and stripped of their cultural identity. Many Quakers at the time failed to recognize the value of Indigenous cultures, blinded by the assumption that assimilation was an act of benevolence.

Paula reminds us that true healing requires listening, truth-telling, and ongoing dialogue with Indigenous communities. You can watch the full QuakerSpeak video, The Lasting Trauma of Quaker Indigenous Boarding Schools, on YouTube or at QuakerSpeak.com. Many thanks to Layla Cuthrell, producer of QuakerSpeak.  

 

The Gift Economy and Abundance: Robin Wall Kimmerer’s The Serviceberry

In The Serviceberry: Abundance and Reciprocity in the Natural World, Robin Wall Kimmerer explores the idea that wealth is not measured by accumulation but by generosity. She describes harvesting serviceberries alongside birds, witnessing the mutual exchange that defines a healthy ecosystem. Drawing from Indigenous knowledge, Kimmerer challenges the scarcity-driven mindset of capitalism and invites readers to embrace a gift economy—one where all flourishing is mutual.

To read Ruah Swennerfelt’s full review of The Serviceberry, visit FriendsJournal.org.

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Answers for This Month’s Question

In our last episode, we asked: “What is your relationship with nature like?”

Listeners shared stories of finding peace in the woods, experiencing the divine through the changing seasons, and feeling responsible for the land they live on. Thank you to everyone who called in, emailed, or commented on social media!

 

Question for Next Month: Neurodivergence in Worship and Education

For next month’s episode, we invite responses from those who identify as neurodivergent or have neurodivergent children or students.

What are some best practices you have experienced or would recommend for places of worship or schools supporting neurodivergent people?

Leave a voice memo or text with your name and location at +1 317-782-5377. You can also comment on our social media channels or email us at podcast@friendsjournal.org.

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Transcript for Quakers Today: Quakers, Nature, and Indigenous Wisdom

Introduction

Miche McCall: In this episode of Quakers Today, we ask: What is your relationship with nature like?

Peterson Toscano: You’ll hear about Robin Wall Kimmerer’s new book, The Serviceberry, and how it challenges our understanding of abundance. Paula Palmer explores the damaging impact of Quaker-run Indigenous boarding schools. And Gail Greenwater, also known as Greenwater, shares her journey of walking prayer meditation along the Santuit River. She weaves together her Indigenous heritage, Quaker faith, and the restorative power of nature.

Miche McCall: This is Season Four, Episode Three of Quakers Today, a project of Friends Publishing Corporation. This season is sponsored by American Friends Service Committee and Friends Fiduciary.

Peterson Toscano: Miche, I have to be honest. When I think about you in nature, I picture you in a scene from But I’m a Cheerleader—like one of those boys in blue flannel at a conversion therapy camp.

Miche McCall: Maybe I shouldn’t rely on a campy satire for my entire understanding of conversion therapy, but it’s the only story I’ve been given! So when I think of you in nature, I see you awkwardly chopping wood while RuPaul supervises.

Peterson Toscano: And RuPaul would absolutely beat me at that—in heels. But that’s the power of a single narrative, right? Even when it’s entertaining, a single story can erase entire groups of people and their contributions.

Miche McCall: Exactly. Stories connect us, but they can also keep us from knowing what we haven’t been taught.

Peterson Toscano: And everything is connected—our stories, our land, our very existence. To re-center that connective tissue, we need to acknowledge the original stewards of the land where we live and the histories that have been suppressed. So, where do we begin?

Miche McCall: That’s exactly what we’re exploring today.

Gail Greenwater: Healing Through Walking Meditation

Miche McCall: One of the Quaker stories we’re sharing today is from Gail Greenwater, a member of Sandwich Meeting in Massachusetts. She’s part of the Herring Pond Wampanoag tribe, whose ancestors met the Mayflower Pilgrims. Gail’s heritage is woven with both Indigenous and Quaker histories.

Gail Greenwater: I need both of my faith communities to connect deeply with God—who I also call Creator and Lord.

Peterson Toscano: In 2022, Gail faced severe burnout from social justice work. She realized she was beyond her measure, doing too much, and not always in the right spirit.

Gail Greenwater: I prayed for the Creator’s guidance. I sought advice from Indigenous and Quaker elders. I added a daily woodland walk to my schedule. And this made all the difference.

Miche McCall: At first, it was just about taking a break. But over time, her walks became a form of healing meditation.

Gail Greenwater: After three months of walking the same path every day, I found my favorite trees. I noticed the small wonders of the natural world. I learned that nature teaches us and heals us. Most importantly, it provides a place where we can grow the inner peace we need to move forward.

Peterson Toscano: And in those woods, engaging all five senses, Gail experienced something remarkable.

Gail Greenwater: One day, I climbed into the arms of a white pine and held completely still. A blue heron landed just a few feet from me. We locked eyes for a full two minutes before it took flight, maneuvering gracefully through the dense branches. In that moment, I longed to learn that kind of grace. Sometimes, our hearts are made to be full to bursting with longing.

Miche McCall: That stillness allowed her to become part of the landscape. She describes how, after sitting motionless long enough, even birds would land on her like she was a tree.

Gail Greenwater: If I sit in silence, day after day, there comes a time when I lose my sense of separateness. I become one with all life.

Peterson Toscano: That deep connection with nature is something many of us crave but rarely make time for.

Gail Greenwater: You don’t have to start big. Five minutes of breathing outside can bring calm and peace. Every day, I go out looking for joy. And I always find it.

Paula Palmer: Reckoning with Quaker-Run Indigenous Boarding Schools

Paula Palmer: Most people don’t realize that Quakers played a significant role in the forced assimilation of Indigenous children. Before we can talk about healing, we must first learn the truth.

The trauma experienced by Indigenous children in these boarding schools was profound. Many were taken from their families, stripped of their language and culture, and forced to abandon their spiritual traditions. They were told that everything about their identity was wrong. The separation was not just physical—it was emotional and spiritual, severing deep ancestral connections.

Quakers at the time believed they were helping. They saw ‘that of God’ in Indigenous children but failed to see the intrinsic value of Indigenous cultures. They were blinded by white supremacy and the belief that their way of life was superior.

Today, we must acknowledge this history and take steps toward truth and reconciliation. But the answers don’t come from within Quaker communities alone. The only way forward is through dialogue and partnership with Indigenous people, listening to what they need and how they want to heal.

Peterson Toscano: That was Paula Palmer in an excerpt from the QuakerSpeak video The Lasting Trauma of Quaker Indigenous Boarding Schools.

Miche McCall: You can find the full QuakerSpeak video and more at QuakerSpeak.com or on their YouTube channel.

Robin Wall Kimmerer’s The Serviceberry: Abundance and Reciprocity in the Natural World

Miche McCall: Robin Wall Kimmerer’s book The Serviceberry explores how Indigenous knowledge challenges Western economic systems.

Peterson Toscano: She describes harvesting serviceberries alongside birds—watching them eat, digest, and drop seeds that will grow into new trees. It’s an exchange, not a transaction.

Miche McCall: Kimmerer contrasts this with capitalism, which prioritizes private wealth and creates a false sense of scarcity. In a gift economy, wealth isn’t about hoarding—it’s about sharing.

Peterson Toscano: The question she asks: What if we measured wealth by how much we give, rather than how much we own?

Miche McCall: The Serviceberry is just over 100 pages and available now. Read the full review at FriendsJournal.org.

Closing and Listener Question

Peterson Toscano: Thank you to everyone who responded to our last question: What is your relationship with nature like?

Miche McCall: For next month, we ask: If you identify as neurodivergent, or have a neurodivergent child or student, what are the best practices you’ve seen in places of worship or schools?

Peterson Toscano: Leave us a voicemail at 317-QUAKERS (317-782-5377) or email podcast@friendsjournal.org.

Sponsors

Quakers Today is sponsored by:

• Friends Fiduciary – Values-aligned investing for Quaker organizations. Learn more at FriendsFiduciary.org.
• American Friends Service Committee – Working for peace and justice worldwide. Visit AFSC.org.

Visit QuakersToday.org for show notes and transcripts. See you next month!

Visit QuakersToday.org for show notes and transcripts. See you next month!

Listener Responses to This Month’s Question

Peterson Toscano: Before we go, let’s hear some responses to our last question: What is your relationship with nature like?

Miche McCall: We received some amazing voicemails and messages on social media. Here are a few highlights:

Listener Voicemail: “Hi, this is Pamela from Philadelphia. My relationship with nature is one of growing respect and connection. The more I pay attention, the more I see the interconnectedness of everything around me. Nature isn’t separate from us—it is us.”

Listener Comment from Instagram (@bonnyalaba): “My relationship to nature is peaceful and essential. Being in nature helps me reset and clear my mind.”

Listener Email from Carol Bradley: “Living in the same place for 41 years, I’ve come to see nature in a deeply personal way. The chickadees that greet me daily may not be the same birds, but they feel like old friends. This year, I turned off an outdoor light to reduce light pollution. I wonder if I’ll notice a difference in the birds’ behavior.”

Listener Voicemail from Max Goodman: “Hi, this is Max Goodman from Brooklyn Quaker Meeting. I became a convinced Friend while working as a counselor for a Quaker outdoor camp. One of my most profound spiritual experiences happened while leading a trip in the Appalachian mountains. Watching a thunderstorm roll in from a high overlook, I was struck by the sheer power and beauty of nature. It reminded me that God is present in the wild, untamed places, just as much as in a quiet meetinghouse.”

Peterson Toscano: Thank you to everyone who shared your experiences with nature. It’s inspiring to hear the different ways people connect with the world around them.

Miche McCall: And remember, for next month, we want to hear from those who identify as neurodivergent or who have neurodivergent children or students. What are the best practices you’ve seen in places of worship or schools?

Peterson Toscano: Leave us a voicemail at 317-QUAKERS (317-782-5377) or email podcast@friendsjournal.org. We can’t wait to hear from you!